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LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
4/28/11 11:27 a.m.

After all I have read on turbo-ing the D series Honda, I am intrigued and wish to subscribe to the newsletter. Where can you find info on them without having to wade through a bunch of gibberish from, well, Honda forum dwellers? Hong Norr guys, where do you lurk?

In case you are wondering, yes, new shiny. I priced out a full Vitara piston engine build on a D16z6 and instantly decided an EF/EG hatch is in my future. There is SO much "leftover rice" sitting around here (in primer, untuned) full of JDM parts, that I can pretty much pick and choose what I want. Hell, a guy is selling an already turbo'd, ZC swapped CRX HF for a grand. A grand!

Related: How much of a pain in the ass it it to get rid of an assy body kit?

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
4/28/11 11:40 a.m.

You could probably find the info here.

Otherwise, D-series.org. Buuttt... there's still a high noise/signal ratio even there.

Whatcha need to know? Between the Hongs, Dave, the Texas AM boys, and others, i bet we could fix you up.

clownkiller
clownkiller Reader
4/28/11 11:45 a.m.
LordTurbonia wrote: Hell, a guy is selling an already turbo'd, ZC swapped CRX HF for a grand. A grand! Related: How much of a pain in the ass it it to get rid of an assy body kit?

Buy the CRX. Kill the body kit with replacement fenders, and all. Some ricer might swap you parts and cash for the extra rice.

pres589
pres589 Dork
4/28/11 11:50 a.m.

Remove body kit with a putty knife and a screw driver, invest in cheap paint job, profit?

Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
4/28/11 11:56 a.m.

One thing that I REALLY like about the D series stuff is that there are so many super cheap parts out there for them. One thing I REALLY don't like about the D series stuff is that there are so many super cheap parts out there for them that every idiot out there seems to talk about them, making it hard to wade through the BS to find the good stuff. Working on this N600 project I've tried to deal with the noise; I'm used to dealing with cars that have a cult following, so there's very little noise because it's a small group of avid enthusiasts that have been dealing with them for a long time and work to document their findings fairly well. Hardly the case with Civics, tons of fly-by-night enthusiasts and half assed hearsay.

I'm all ears if there's a "good" forum, build thread, web page, whatever, but I won't hold my breath.

Bryce

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
4/28/11 12:31 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: You could probably find the info here. Otherwise, D-series.org. Buuttt... there's still a high noise/signal ratio even there. Whatcha need to know? Between the Hongs, Dave, the Texas AM boys, and others, i bet we could fix you up.

Yeah, I've hit the usual suspects . . . D-Series, Honda-tech, there's even a dedicated turbo D forum but it's all either people talking out their ass or swinging their mighty dyno e-penis. The best dudes I found were the Energy Dynamics guys, but their writeups are way more B-oriented.

Mostly I'm looking for VE so I can do some calculations to size a turbo . . . most of the 200+HP builds I've seen have astronomic spool (we're talking 5K to reach full boost) and I'm partially chalking that up to the fact that NOBODY on these forums has read a theory book on turbochargers and they all for the most part run way small exhaust. I even saw a guy that said 2.25 was too big for a turbo D and that a 2 inch catback would work fine. Contrast this with your usual import enthusiast fart can and I'm wondering if anybody in the D scene knows what exhaust does.

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
4/28/11 12:35 p.m.
Nashco wrote: One thing that I REALLY like about the D series stuff is that there are so many super cheap parts out there for them.

Quoted for truth. Built internals for $400? You can do that in D land.

PS your Challenge build is sick. At first I though it was a going to be a neat variation on the "K Mini" concept, and then . . .

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
4/28/11 12:36 p.m.
LordTurbonia wrote:
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: You could probably find the info here. Otherwise, D-series.org. Buuttt... there's still a high noise/signal ratio even there. Whatcha need to know? Between the Hongs, Dave, the Texas AM boys, and others, i bet we could fix you up.

Yeah, I've hit the usual suspects . . . D-Series, Honda-tech, there's even a dedicated turbo D forum but it's all either people talking out their ass or swinging their mighty dyno e-penis. The best dudes I found were the Energy Dynamics guys, but their writeups are way more B-oriented.

Mostly I'm looking for VE so I can do some calculations to size a turbo . . . most of the 200+HP builds I've seen have astronomic spool (we're talking 5K to reach full boost) and I'm partially chalking that up to the fact that NOBODY on these forums has read a theory book on turbochargers and they all for the most part run way small exhaust. I even saw a guy that said 2.25 was too big for a turbo D and that a 2 inch catback would work fine. Contrast this with your usual import enthusiast fart can and I'm wondering if anybody in the D scene knows what exhaust does.

Eesh... the local boys have no problems hitting full boost by around 3500rpms with a PROPERLY sized turbo and exhaust.

I can try to find the VE for you, but honestly, with how many successful D16 builds there are out there (including on this forum) you'd just be doing the same legwork that thousands of people have already done.

For 200whp, a T25 should spool quick, give you the power you're looking for, and probably wouldn't run out of breath up top on a little 1.6 litre. Pair it with a 2.5" exhaust MINIMUM, hell maybe even 3" and roll.

LordTurbonia
LordTurbonia New Reader
4/28/11 12:51 p.m.

T25 and 3" sounds about right. Does a 3" downpipe interfere with AC? Some vendors say it does, some say it's fine. I'm making a budget and planning things out ahead of time around a finished result, so I'm curious.

I got a number of 88% VE from one source, but it was called "No0B info of the D" so I remain skeptical of the engineering credentials of those involved.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
4/28/11 12:55 p.m.
LordTurbonia wrote: T25 and 3" sounds about right. Does a 3" downpipe interfere with AC? Some vendors say it does, some say it's fine. I'm making a budget and planning things out ahead of time around a finished result, so I'm curious. I got a number of 88% VE from one source, but it was called "No0B info of the D" so I remain skeptical of the engineering credentials of those involved.

I don't know if it would interfere or not, i'm usually personally not that picky. I just rip it out.

I'm reasonably sure that if you were to make your own 3" downpipe, you could figure it out to make it fit.

But, i'll ask a couple buddies about it if the Hong/Dave crew don't answer first.

poopshovel
poopshovel SuperDork
4/28/11 1:18 p.m.

Wayne will have to give you the particulars on the turbo for the s00p3rturd, but I know it was at least partially a T03 from the Boss Hong. Cheap-ass Chinese manifold from ebay ('ssautochrome' or whatever,) STOCK internals, big injectors, ebay intercooler and piping kit.

We've caught E36 M3 from time to time for just using bolt-ons or whatever, but for the price, it's really hard to beat. Best time after the first Challenge was 12.7 @ 109, last run of the night. We threw nitrous at it with unknown jets last year and blew thee berkeleyer up.

I'd skip the vitaras. As others have said, the single sticks are almost throw-away motors.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
4/28/11 1:20 p.m.

11.7:1 Compression
Schedule 40 manifold
T25
2.5" @ the outlet, opening to 3" where the WG rejoins, all mandrel bent
DSM intercooler
E85 fuel
DSM injectors

Positive manifold pressure @ 1700RPM, full boost by 2500RPM.

Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
4/28/11 2:39 p.m.

Dave, didn't you have a build thread(s) for your engine? I can't seem to find it right away. Your setup sounds similar to the direction we're headed with the N600.

Bryce

KATYB
KATYB Reader
4/28/11 3:04 p.m.

gt28rs is my advice. 3 inchdownpipe as far as all off the shelf ones do interfere. you can always fab up yourself tho. altho not fun it can be done. 2.75 inch seems to be the avg around here.

unevolved
unevolved Dork
4/28/11 4:14 p.m.

If I could do it all over again, there's not much I'd change from our '09 Challenge build. D16Z6 with Vitaras, a small T3 (smaller than most T28s, remember the "T" number is just flange size), eBay charge piping, cheap intercooler, DSM 450cc injectors, and tune it with Crome Pro.

If we hadn't been under the constraints of the Challenge (or such idiots) that car would still be with us today. It was insanely quick for a $2000 car. That motor would stomach 25psi all day long, and would still be doing so if we'd been more careful.

poopshovel
poopshovel SuperDork
4/28/11 4:20 p.m.
unevolved wrote: If I could do it all over again, there's not much I'd change from our '09 Challenge build. D16Z6 with Vitaras, a small T3 (smaller than most T28s, remember the "T" number is just flange size), eBay charge piping, cheap intercooler, DSM 450cc injectors, and tune it with Crome Pro. If we hadn't been under the constraints of the Challenge (or such idiots) that car would still be with us today. It was insanely quick for a $2000 car. That motor would stomach 25psi all day long, and would still be doing so if we'd been more careful.

What was the mode of failure? I missed that somehow.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
4/28/11 5:35 p.m.
Nashco wrote: Dave, didn't you have a build thread(s) for your engine? I can't seem to find it right away. Your setup sounds similar to the direction we're headed with the N600. Bryce

I don't think I ever copied it over here because this site uses different image tags so it's PITA to C&P stuff from other forums. Here's are a couple of threads on RRAX:

Original Build - http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=13610 & http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=20294

Take 2 (real rods and pistons) - http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=22866

Take 3 (rebuild after dropping a valve) - http://www.roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=30780

unevolved
unevolved Dork
4/28/11 6:35 p.m.
poopshovel wrote:
unevolved wrote: If I could do it all over again, there's not much I'd change from our '09 Challenge build. D16Z6 with Vitaras, a small T3 (smaller than most T28s, remember the "T" number is just flange size), eBay charge piping, cheap intercooler, DSM 450cc injectors, and tune it with Crome Pro. If we hadn't been under the constraints of the Challenge (or such idiots) that car would still be with us today. It was insanely quick for a $2000 car. That motor would stomach 25psi all day long, and would still be doing so if we'd been more careful.

What was the mode of failure? I missed that somehow.

The first time? Detonation. The knock sensor was pulling timing so fast we didn't accurately diagnose the issue until it was too late. We were convinced it was an ignition issue.

Run_Away
Run_Away Reader
4/28/11 8:53 p.m.

Knock sensor? D16Z6/P28 doesn't have a knock sensor from what I remember.

To the OP: Check out onecamonly.com there are some knowledgeable folks there though the bias is more N/A than turbo.

clownkiller
clownkiller Reader
4/28/11 10:53 p.m.

In reply to poopshovel: Dead stock D16z6 with 250,000 miles with e-bay bolt ons. 450cc injectors, full 3" downpipe and exhaust dumped behind the driver. T3 off 2.2l Dodge. Tuned with Chrome Pro mystery chip, then adjusted at the Challenge, no vtec. We were going to Megasquirt it but that never happened.. Estimated 179hp. The D16 hates 30 shot of nitrous at 16 psi. If there was no budget, the motor would be a copy of DILYSI Dave's above. The key is keeping it light. The Turd weighs in at 1880 Lbs wet. 3" down and exaust, thats Kevin behind the welding Ebay motors was a sponsor that year and I bought the intercooler and piping thru them.

Rattle can rebuild. There was no time or money to do much else. This is the donor car for the turbo. I loved this car, best $98 I ever spent!

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
4/29/11 9:18 a.m.

If you are only going for 200hp, I would imagine the stock internals can take it. I believe the stock rods will last until 220. B18 non vtec rods will fit with a little grinding. Also for injectors don't bother with DSM, go for the Acura RDX injectors.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
4/29/11 9:27 a.m.
93EXCivic wrote: If you are only going for 200hp, I would imagine the stock internals can take it. I believe the stock rods will last until 220. B18 non vtec rods will fit with a little grinding. Also for injectors don't bother with DSM, go for the Acura RDX injectors.

Depends.

That happened @ 175HP. But I also had insta-spool, so I was seeing the same torque as some 300+ HP builds.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
4/29/11 9:41 a.m.

In reply to DILYSI Dave:

Well E36 M3. I am personally planning on using the B18 rods whenever I do my D-series build. I need to read through your build threads. Just wondering, why are you using DSM injectors instead of RDXs?

Tyler H
Tyler H Dork
4/29/11 9:53 a.m.

Do people do this successfully with d15s? I have a spare d16z6 and a d15b7 just laying around. I'd like to keep the d16 as unbastardized as a (mystery motor bought out of the back of a minivan can be) for our Lemons car. Now the d15...well I could do bad things to it.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave SuperDork
4/29/11 9:54 a.m.
93EXCivic wrote: In reply to DILYSI Dave: Well E36 M3. I am personally planning on using the B18 rods whenever I do my D-series build. I need to read through your build threads. Just wondering, why are you using DSM injectors instead of RDXs?

If I was budget building, I'd do the B18 rods. Since I wasn't, and Eagles are cheap as far as race parts go, I pulled the trigger. Of course, Eagles don't work with OE pistons, so you have to do aftermarket rods and pistons at the same time.

Injectors - Because I bought them probably 6-7 years ago when DSM's were the E36 M3. They are plug-n-play in the EF, so it was easy. I don't recall if the RDX's are or not.

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