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I would have to guess that a diesel would get about equal miles per dollar, and you pay a pretty hefty premium for a diesel vehicle in terms of initial purchase cost. Not to mention I just looked through VW's lineup, and didn't see any diesels.
Hybrids are still a relative unknown. It's fine if you're a short-term buyer, but a bit dangerous in the long-term.
^all I could find on the VW site was "contact dealer"
SVreX wrote:I'm interested in this statement. Why did you specifically rule out hybrids, diesels, and other fuels? Just interested in your take on the matter.
Fair enough question.
My commute is 70 miles each way (140 daily) all highway. Current hybrid technology is lovely in town but get it on the highway and its all gas motor, no benefit to someone with my driving patterns.
Diesel, very few options on the market currently. VW has a new crop inbound currently but not at the time I was looking to purchase. And as much as I love my classic VWs Im not so impressed with the new stuff, but had it been available at time of purchase I would have considered it.
Other fuels? Hydrogen...nothing available mainstream. LPG? Again lack of fueling stations and available options.
I looked long and hard a building an electric based on converting an old VW, the kits are cheap and available. But there is no way to get even 70 miles out of a self build (and that assumes I could recharge at work)
I looked at the Yaris too. Nice little car, but the end decision came down to best fuel economy. If the IQ had been in the US I would have looked at it, and with my penchant for replacing my DD every one to two years I will probably look at one in a year or so if they do show up.
Interesting thought on the whole CRX argument, instead of wondering why an 80s/90s CRX could get near 50mpg and a smart cant why not ask why no current honda (hybrids aside) can get over 40mpg? They had the technology once...did it dissapear? Not trying to be the smart fanboi and honda detractor, but its a serious question...why could they do it before and not now....the answers to that question are most likely the same answer to why a smart doesnt do as well as a CRX.
I still maintain that Honda could have built the Insight as a gasser with around 1.3 liters of displacement. Figure the weight savings of losing the electric motor and the battery pack, it probably could have gotten close to a CRX in mpgs.
but Honda wants to be on the leading edge. They've proven they can get good mpg out of gassers. No more challenge for them.
Not to mention that at the time of development for the Prius, good gas mileage wasn't quite the selling point as it is now. Yeah, it made good advertising, but it wasn't really considered in the purchasing process for most people.
Would you be able to approximate the weight of your "Carpooling" passenger ? is it -1mpg per 100lbs ? Just wondering how it corresponds......
Thanks, Chebbie_sb (Dave)
Chebbie_SB wrote:Would you be able to approximate the weight of your "Carpooling" passenger ? is it -1mpg per 100lbs ? Just wondering how it corresponds......
He's about the same size as me so figure about 200lbs.
MPG is probably also down a bit because Im running the air more. I tend to like open windows (until it gets above 85 and humid) so at least in the mornings I usually drove without the air on. My passenger is a bit more wussy (lol) so I leave the AC on more.
If we are still carpooling come fall I'll get some more accurate number compairasons based on my previous single person non A/C numbers from the spring
The september Car and Driver is out and we have a side bar article on running the Smart
I would imagine that another telling point is that I believe that the speed JThw8 drives may be ahem slightly affecting the mpg.
I love the fact that in Italy everyone backed in to parallel street spots, and that Mini's started to look the size of my MK III Jetta.
Great purchase and love the write up!
Ciao
My Civic VX is rated at like 56 mpg highway and seats 5 in discomfort. It's got A/C, a real manual trans, and cost me less than $3000 6 years ago. So obviously I'm a better person than you.
Oh wait, but it's also louder, less fun to drive, old, rusty, less comfortable, and not in any way a microcar, but instead a boring two-box hatchback. So you're the better person.
Seriously though, I would buy a Fortwo in a heartbeat if not for one painful thing. You can't buy one at MSRP. The local dealer has orphans that were preordered and canceled, and they load them up with extras so you pay a ton more. Say a passion coupe, which is $13,500 or so MSRP, goes up to $15,600 + tax once you add in things like pinstriping and fabric protectant. No kidding, they tried selling me a Pure for $14,500 without A/C.
So instead we'll be buying a Fit. Honda's smart enough to know they have a good thing going, and sell as many Fits as they can for MSRP, maybe a little tiny bit less. Smart is an incredibly niche brand, and I find it hard to believe that there is an endless supply of people willing to pay a premium to have one. I can see a bunch of the cars piling up on the lot as canceled orders stack up.
I understand you ordered yours, which I wish I was smart (ha) enough to do a year ago. Unfortunately the preorder list is about 20 months long, and I will be in a different situation, and perhaps Smart out of business, by then.
I'm seeing more and more Smart's around Richmond, Va. Which is interesting considering they don't have a dealer here that I know of. There is one in Virginia Beach and then Alexandria.
I wonder if the dealers are getting caught with cancelled orders? It would seem that marking them up with bogus options would drive down demand. Course, no one ever got rich banking on people being smart about money or cars.
I still can't see paying that much for one. Wonder what they're going for on Craig's?
Seems that the one's in Dc are going for anywhere from 14k (non AC car) to 21k. Hampton Roads has one, just one for sale, and the owner is asking 23k. I wonder how much crack the owner will buy with the 23k he will get for his car? He must need more because with a price that high he must've smoked all the crack he had.
Xceler8x wrote:I wonder if the dealers are getting caught with cancelled orders? It would seem that marking them up with bogus options would drive down demand. Course, no one ever got rich banking on people being smart about money or cars.
To the average buyer:
Yes, it may not be a wise financial decision, but casually reminding the neighbor about their Prius' many deadly batteries while leaning against a Smart is so worth it.
The Smart can also renders a new efficiency criteria: It always has occupants at minimum of 50% capacity while in motion (not counting ghost riding the whip). Commuting to work alone in the average hybrid? At only 20% occupancy, you might as well stab earth with a uranium dagger.
Does this mean any two-seater convertible can be considered more eco-friendly due to efficiency than the lone commuter in a hybrid? 
I'd love to shake my head in disgust at a Prius owner in traffic from a Miata, or even better, strapped into a FFR roadster.
I was lucky to buy my orphan at MSRP. But admittedly my dealer does the same thing as most of the others, loads them with options and jacks up the price. I just happened to show up when they had a fresh orphan that they didnt have time to "upgrade" they took the quick sale.
While alot of people are fighting against the mark ups the dealers still cant keep them in stock so for now its hard to find MSRP. www.smartcarofamerica.com forums list dealer feedback and dealers which are still selling at MSRP.
All I can say is at least you are getting something for the inflated price since they are not allowed to do a dealer markup on the car so they have to add the options to mark it up. But in most cases the options are certainly not worth the mark up.
And as Versingetrix astutely noted...my driving style definitely effects the fuel economy :) If I would slow my butt down I could get a few more MPG out of it.
Back in the summer this car was hot but I'd bet enthusiasm has cooled with the drop of gas prices. Nevertheless, I KNOW the high gas prices WILL be back and am looking at this car as my possible next buggy. I've got reservations about it, mostly over the lack of warranty coverage and safety but I'm keeping it in mind. NO way would I pay over MSRP for one, however. I'm curious if you use recommended premium gas to get the MPG results you show here or can you get it with mid or regular grade. No way would I buy premium for this car though I'd get 89 octane if the MPG deteriorates with regular. I wouldn't drive near the speeds you do, JThw8 and would likely keep my commute as much off of open freeways as possible. Are extended warranties available? - guess I'd need to ask a dealer that. Also, from what I read, this car's "manu-matic" transmission isn't smooth and likely helps keep performance and gas mileage below where it should be. Let me know how the ForTwo has been since you last posted this. Appreciate any further comments you have on it. Thanks, man!
How is it that this thread has come this far and there's not a single person who's asked how the car handles?!? 9000mpg is worthless to me if I'm gonna flip the thing when I swerve to avoid a deer/child/latte-sipping, cell-phone-yakking, SUV-driving jackass.
How does it handle? It LOOKS like it is a handling , rough riding , short wheel base buck board. OVR had one auto x , it did ok.
I love the Top Gear mileage tests. Where they ran a Prius against a M3. The Prius flat out, the M3 just keeping up
Prius = 17 mpg
M3 = 19 mpg !
Not What you drive, but HOW you drive it counts most!
If the CRX was the end-all, be-all, it would still be in production. Hey wait, maybe GM could buy the rights to it and the tooling and make them again. nah they'd still screw it up.
I did have one thing I had a question about. I think the car asks in the manual for premium gas, are you currently running premium or regular in yours?
Hi all, sorry I didnt see this come back to life sooner. First off, we are now in month 8 and over 25,000 miles. Still runs and drives great, still probalby the best commuter use car I have ever owned.
My wifes car sits almost all the time now, she would rather take the Smart to the store or mall or whatever than her beloved Mustang Convertible (anyone want a deal on an 05 Mustang?)
Still averaging 43-45 mpg, toward the lower end with my commuting passenger, toward the upper end when its just me.
So far it has carried home a SBC engine, 2 sets of wheels and tires (not at the same time) a 43inch lcd TV....etc...so its alot more useful than it may seem.
As to the questions. Yes I run premium in it, and yes the milage deteriorates if you run regular, enough to make the extra cost of premium worth it. I've run other grades and Im pretty sure my wife always forgets to put premium in it. The performance is not effected but I do see a 2-4 mpg drop. Premium here has come back down in line with regular so its not a huge deal to me.
Yes extended warantees are available at most dealers, no I dont have one.
The "manumatic" is much maligned and wrongly so. There are 2 issues 1) in the first 1000-2000 miles it shifts like crap and sadly most testers are driving new cars so that is their first and only impression. After 1000-2000 miles something happens, there has been debate wether the transmission "learns" or the clutch just beds in or magic gnomes suddenly appear but one way or another it does smooth out. 2) It never feels completely like an automatic because its not, its a genuine 5 speed and its got to shift between each gear. People who arent used to manuals find the feeling funny, but if you are used to them you will recognize it right away and as you would do with a regular manual you will lift off the gas slightly to facilitate the shift. But even without this behavior the transmission feels much better after the first few thousand miles and is not a weak point in my mind at all. I will admit on my first test drive it was wonky enough to make me rethink the car, but I decided to give it a shot and it was worth it.
And just so I dont sound like a complete fanboi, my dad is in the market for a new commuter and I've talked him out of getting a smart. Why? The warantee, he doesnt wrench on his own cars so he needs the warantee.
SoloSonett wrote:Sorry missed that one in my reply.How does it handle? It LOOKS like it is a handling , rough riding , short wheel base buck board. OVR had one auto x , it did ok.
Handling is ok. Its not a miata for sure, but it does well. The ride is firm, on par with my miata with firmer springs. So on NJ roads it can be rough but not unbearable.
Datsun1500 wrote:The 1989 CRX HF is a 2 seater, rated at 41 City, 50 Highway. That was 20 years ago, why is the smart being rated at 41 highway such a big deal 20 years later? The CRX is also about 300 pounds heaver. I don't get it
Because the EPA test has changed three times since the CRX HF was tested. So it's hard to compare cars between the eras. Back in the '80s, EPA estimates were wildly optimistic. Today they are very slightly optimistic and much closer to real world conditions.
In a head-to-head test using the new standards, the outcome would be much different.
Will two sets of golf clubs fit in the trunk? It looks like it might just be tall enough to stand them in there.
CrackMonkey wrote:Will two sets of golf clubs fit in the trunk? It looks like it might just be tall enough to stand them in there.
I think it would be a tight fit if at all, however if you dont have a passenger they will easily fit with the passenger seat folded down. Or you can fab up a carrier for the rear using the 2 rear tow bolt areas, alot of people are making different carriers to mount to the bolt holes. It looks like a golf cart anyway so 2 bags hanging on the back should look natural. ;)
My sister's crx on a bad tune could do 40mpg. The crx is right next to the ground though. Cool to here you are driving the hell out of the little beast.
When I helped my dad choose a car to buy I suggested a ford focus and they are pretty decent for the price. The problem with toyotas/hondas is you are paying a premium for the japanese cars. Hopefully the focus is durable, but if it does have an issue you'd be in the same boat as a million other people.
