RexSeven
RexSeven UltraDork
11/14/12 5:52 p.m.

My 1993 Eclipse GSX is a total rustbucket. The rear hard brake lines were replaced, albeit amateurishly (they don't follow the stock bends and are held in place by zip ties). The fuel lines appear to be too fragile for me to even consider rallycrossing the Eclipse as was my original plan. I think they can handle one more winter, but they are in definite need of replacement should I decide to keep the Eclipse.

I plan to remove some brake lines from a junkyard car and bend up some new ones using the old ones as a template. I'm not sure I'm ready or willing to tackle the fuel lines, but that would have to wait until spring anyway when I can get back to DDing the Mustang.

Anyone here made their own fuel lines? How much of a PITA is it to make your own and install them?

chaparral
chaparral HalfDork
11/14/12 5:55 p.m.

You need the right flaring tool, but apart from that - it is easy. Make sure you put loops in it to let it flex a little up, down, left, right. Sometimes even the OEMs fail to do it.

The right stuff, sold specifically for that purpose at auto parts stores, is cheap enough that you should practice with it to see what you can and can't get away with. Sharp kinks are lethal. Tight bends need to be formed in 3D.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/14/12 6:16 p.m.

Fuel lines are just larger diameter hard brake lines, really. In a 1993 Eclipse, they might not even be flared at the ends. You can buy rolls of line at parts store.

It's easier if you get a bending tool. This little guy works well: http://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-bender-3755.html

fasted58
fasted58 UberDork
11/14/12 6:52 p.m.

Like said in above posts the right tools are well worth it.

AZ has/ had a brake line flaring tool in their loan-a-tool. I liked it so I bought it for around $28 IIRC. They're good for occasional work but if more frequent use is anticipated might wanna invest in a better quality tool. The best can run up to a coupla/ few hunnert dollars but they're prolly the last one you'll ever need to buy.

Plus one on Keith's link to HF, Sears has a similar bender as well.

Buy extra tubing to practice on, mark the tube in 1" increments to judge what the bend will take up. Practice on the tube flares too.

Good luck.

Knurled
Knurled SuperDork
11/14/12 7:20 p.m.

I make probably 150-200 linear feet of brake line and fuel line per month at work. The hardest part is routing.

Don't be cheap - get the plastic-coated steel line. Yes, it costs twice as much, but it's also about forty times easier to bend.

fasted58
fasted58 UberDork
11/14/12 7:22 p.m.

In reply to Knurled:

what flaring tool do you prefer?

RexSeven
RexSeven UltraDork
11/14/12 7:33 p.m.
Knurled wrote: I make probably 150-200 linear feet of brake line and fuel line per month at work. The hardest part is routing. Don't be cheap - get the plastic-coated steel line. Yes, it costs twice as much, but it's also about forty times easier to bend.

By plastic-coated, do you mean the metal line that's coated in that grayish-green color?

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic HalfDork
11/14/12 7:37 p.m.
Knurled wrote: I make probably 150-200 linear feet of brake line and fuel line per month at work. The hardest part is routing. Don't be cheap - get the plastic-coated steel line. Yes, it costs twice as much, but it's also about forty times easier to bend.

I didn't know advanreillyzoneapa would sell you anything less than poly armor.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/14/12 7:38 p.m.

Cheap flaring tools are awful. The first Snap-on tool I ever bought was a flaring tool.

banzaitoyota
banzaitoyota New Reader
11/15/12 7:02 a.m.

fedhill brake has great line and an awesome flaring tool

http://www.fedhillusa.com/

44Dwarf
44Dwarf SuperDork
11/15/12 7:11 a.m.
banzaitoyota wrote: fedhill brake has great line and an awesome flaring tool http://www.fedhillusa.com/

There injection line adapters for that tool as well. but i didn't see them on that site

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro HalfDork
11/15/12 7:22 a.m.

I did my own brake lines for the Camaro, but didn't have to flare a single line. I bought pre-made straight lines, after carefully planning out the route and buying the lines and unions needed. Easy as pie, just had to bend them. Of course I did this as flaring and I don't always get along. Not something I wanted to play with (brakes).

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
11/15/12 7:30 a.m.

I do it the same way 81cpcamaro does because I truly HATE double flaring brake lines. Measure as needed, add a few inches for mistakes in measuring, get premade hard lines that total the length needed, grab a handful of coupling nuts and one of those HF benders Keith linked and go to town.

Gearhead_42
Gearhead_42 Dork
11/15/12 8:16 a.m.

Devils advocate here, I replaced the fuel lines on our 1993 Laser Chumpcar and the (stock) routing is a bitch. My advice? Tear it all out and replace with AN6 braided hose. With a couple AN-hose barb clamps you don't even need any of the pretty fittings... and it leaves an easy upgrade path down the road for improving the stock fuel system.

mikeatrpi
mikeatrpi Reader
11/15/12 8:18 a.m.

^ Is that legal for a street car?

NOHOME
NOHOME Dork
11/15/12 10:37 a.m.

Benders only give you one radius. I resort to a large collection of sockets, paint cans and anything else with a radius that suits my needs.

Flaring tools for less than $100 are suspect in my opinion and have variable results.

Also, buy a good tube cutter, it makes a big difference. Square and burr-free is the goal.

RexSeven
RexSeven UltraDork
11/15/12 6:34 p.m.

I'm probably not going to do any AN6. The Eclipse is too knackered for any substantial upgrades and braided hose looks expensive. Going by the FSM, the fuel line routing on the AWD DSMs doesn't look as bad as on the FWD cars (the brake lines might be a pain, since it has the dreaded ABS).

I may not even need to drop the gas tank to get to the fittings there. Which is great because the studs and nuts holding it in place are also rusted to hell. They are high on my to-do list but they look like a bitch to remove.

fifty
fifty Reader
11/16/12 1:23 p.m.

I just took mine to be flared at a hydraulic shop - $20, custom lengths and the brakes are headache free!

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo Dork
11/16/12 6:12 p.m.

I did a complete replumb on my friend's 1992 Galant VR4, essentially the same car as your GSX.

Step 1 was to pull the engine, trans, and front and rear subframes so the lines could be routed properly. We pulled the old lines out and duplicated the way the factory ran them. We replaced the lines with stainless steel, which, while more expensive, will never rust.

Step 2 was to ditch the ABS. Early 90s Mitsu ABS is pretty bad and is right in the way of everything you want to do. All you need is a proportioning valve from a non-ABS car. Ideally it would be a 93 or 94 with the factory "big brakes" on the front to keep the bias just right, but I used one from a generic Galant in a junk yard and it was fine for a street driver.

If you ditch the ABS, you need all new front lines, the ones from the master cylinder to the distribution block and from the distribution block to the front wheels are different. The rear lines are the same on all cars, there is a junction block on the firewall in place of the proportioning valve on ABS equipped cars. You can shortcut the "new brake line" approach quote a bit by pulling good front lines and proportioning valve lines out of the same junkyard car you get the proportioning valve. Most turbo DSMs have the engines and transmissions out of them in yards. All non-ABS DSM brake lines are the same, all years 90-94.

To flare stainless, I used my Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool. Its the only way to do flares. It makes perfect flares every time with no effort and no chance for mistakes. You can get your own from most online retailers. http://www.mastercool.com/pages/flaring_tools.html

Step 3 was to add the proper flare nuts to the lines. For the brake lines, reuse the OEM stuff. A little blast in a wire wheel will clean them up nice, and an ABS car has enough clean flare nuts to piece together a non-ABS system with all clean hardware. For the fuel lines, get a set of tube nuts and sleeves from Summit and then you can use standard -6AN hardware for all the soft lines.

Expect to spend a few hundred dollars to do it right not counting the tools, but the end result is totally worth it. Completely rust free lines routed in the OEM locations just like sweet mother Mitsu intended.

RexSeven
RexSeven UltraDork
11/16/12 7:27 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo:

Do the 1.8L non-ABS DSMs have the same brake routing as the 4G63 FWD and AWD non-ABS DSMs? I know the fuel lines are totally different between the 1.8L, 2.0L FWD, and 2.0L AWD. Also, will removing ABS throw a light on the dashboard?

If I can find decent lines from a junkyard car I'll just swap them in and save the old ones to practice making new lines with. There seem to be plenty of 1.8L and non-turbo 4G63 DSMs in the local junkyards, but the 4G63T variants are rare, and 1G DSMs that aren't rusted out are rarer still.

RexSeven
RexSeven UltraDork
11/16/12 7:46 p.m.

Or I could try this kit:

http://www.streettunedmotorsports.com/parts/stm_dsm_fuel_tank_to_rail_kit.htm

Maybe AN6 would work for me. The price doesn't look too bad. Anyone ever use Russell Pro Classic lines? Russell is a division of Edelbrock. They would have to hold up to New England winters and maybe some rallycross use.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo Dork
11/16/12 8:09 p.m.

In reply to RexSeven:
Front lines (4 of them, 2 to the proportioning valve and 2 to the front wheels) are specific to ABS or non-ABS chassis, but do not make a split for powertrain. In other words, all 90-94 DSMs use the same lines and same form and fit (but slightly different function) proportioning valve.

Rear lines (2 of them) are specific to AWD or FWD but do not make a split for turbo FWD or NT FWD.

Removing the ABS completely will not illuminate the ABS light. You need to remove the pump under the hood and the computer module, which I believe is behind a rear trim panel next to the rear seats, but its been a while since I was into a DSM that far.

You need to remove the computer module or you will experience high idle under 15 MPH. You can also of course just remove the bulb.

I do not like running soft lines under a car regardless of the manufacturer. I would plumb the fuel lines in steel or stainless steel hard line for the majority of the run like the factory intended. You can retain a stock fuel filter with aftermarket hard line, or install an aftermarket filter. If you save the tube nuts off your stock fuel line, once you flare it with your MASTERCOOL flaring tool, it will be the exact same as the stock steel line with less rust. The stock return line just has barbs on it for slip-fit connections. I used the stock Ford/GM quick disconnect fuel line dies in my Mastercool kit to make a barb that would retain the hose when I routed the new return line. Just don't go all the way with the die to leave the barb a little bit rounded instead of sharp and flat. Its a spot-on match for the factory barb.

Kendall_Jones
Kendall_Jones HalfDork
11/16/12 8:30 p.m.

Also you can get bundyweld tubing from mcmaster carr - $20 for 25 ft

mcmaster carr link

curtis73
curtis73 SuperDork
11/16/12 8:31 p.m.

Do a search for replacement fuel lines and brake lines. There are two companies I use for classic cars: Inline Tube and Classic Tube. I bought new stainless steel brake lines for my 66 bonny including custom master cylinder nuts for an aftermarket master and I think it cost $180. They came in a big box kinda wrapped around in a 3' radius. I opened it, straightened them out, put them on, done.

A few tips if you're doing it yourself: For fuel line - single flare or compression is fine. Brass fittings are fine with the exception of galvanic corrosion being slightly accelerated. Even if you have a crazy wild fuel pump, the most pressure you would possibly see is 100 psi. For brake line - double flares are a must. Compression fittings are an absolute no-no. Brass components are not acceptable. Brake lines can see in excess of 2000 psi.

Another possibility for your fuel line is aluminum. Summit Racing sells coils of 3/8" aluminum fuel line that is super soft, easy to bend, easy to flare, and won't rust.

dculberson
dculberson SuperDork
11/19/12 12:09 p.m.

Aluminum fuel lines aren't rated high enough for the pressure that fuel injection runs. Yes, the raw tube will hold the pressure, but add in a few work hardened spots from bending and unbending the tubing and you can end up with leaks. I had to rip out and re-do the fuel lines in a car because they were aluminum and ended up with a couple leaks in the bends. That's why they're listed for carbureted engines only.

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