In reply to ProDarwin:
and what year is your Saturn? 
This is a MODERN car we're talking about, not some old ancient GM junk (I keed! I keed!)
In reply to ProDarwin:
and what year is your Saturn? This is a MODERN car we're talking about, not some old ancient GM junk (I keed! I keed!)
In reply to Bobzilla:
Yeah... this is only my second "recall" car I've had to deal with it. My '03 Jetta had a few recalls, but I ignored one (the cause and "fix" was well known on TDiClub and I wanted no part of it), and I did the other two myself. To me, it was far less hassle to buy a $5 part (brake light switch) online and do the R&R myself rather than have it done for free by the dealer.
wbjones wrote:Duke wrote:but the manufacturer couldn't care less about the techyamaha wrote: They built it to be easy as they expected them to break and be in for service......with that 10yr warranty and all, so it sounds like it was built with quick in/out service trips in mind.The flaw in that theory is that the warranty work is flat rate, so there is no percentage in engineering the car to be easy to work on, because it's the tech that gets dicked over by a low book rate.
Eggs Zachary! Which is why the manufacturer wouldn't spend much on engineering a car to be easy and quick to work on, if they expected a lot of warranty work. They would just set the book rate to 70% or less of the actual time required, and call it a day.
Bobzilla wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: and what year is your Saturn?
Fair enough 
I have often wondered why some cars are so difficult to work on, yet mechanically should be just as simple as the Saturn. Or Forte. Or almost any basic FWD appliance.
Bobzilla wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: and what year is your Saturn?
Of course then there's this list, including Hyundai and GM...
http://blog.caranddriver.com/from-the-obvious-file-record-number-of-vehicles-recalled-in-2014/
Honda doesn't "Recall", they just release 15 service bulletins to replace important parts on the same car. Oh wait, no they're recalling like mad right now too. Just got 3 new recalls last week for 2015 models and 2 stop-sales.
Duke wrote: Eggs Zachary! Which is why the manufacturer wouldn't spend much on engineering a car to be easy and quick to work on, if they expected a lot of warranty work. They would just set the book rate to 70% or less of the actual time required, and call it a day.
Yes and no. While modern cars aren't designed to be easy to work on, they are designed to go together quickly on an assembly line. In some cases, just figuring out how it was assembled can make a car easier to work on, since then taking it apart becomes more logical, if not necessarily straight-forward. This is why I find modern MINI's fairly easy to work on compared to a lot of older cars. Of course, it also explains why some items seems damn near impossible to access in an engine bay.
Elantra, timing chain, easily accessed alternator, starter, plugs and more.
One of the reasons I chose it
Bobzilla wrote: Honda doesn't "Recall", they just release 15 service bulletins to replace important parts on the same car. Oh wait, no they're recalling like mad right now too. Just got 3 new recalls last week for 2015 models and 2 stop-sales.
And how does that little tangent change the fact that Hyundai and GM have recalled record number of cars this year?
Honda is as well....in fact EVERYONE is right now. Chrysler announced a new one last week. I believe I read somewhere that 2014 was the year with the most recalled vehicles in history across all the major brands.
Of course none of this has anything to do with the original topic other than to E36 M3 it up with more bs bias. Like normal.
yamaha wrote: They built it to be easy as they expected them to break and be in for service......with that 10yr warranty and all, so it sounds like it was built with quick in/out service trips in mind.
I'm possible. The engineers designing the thing wouldn't give two berkeleys about the people that have to work on it once its built. The ease of maintenance is merely a coincidence.
I'm excited there is someone (Bobzilla) that loves Kia's.
I have ways loved the mostly unloved. I bought three Samurais when everyone had full-size trucks or Jeeps.
Then when I could pull a third-member, a transfer-case, an alternator, a driveshaft, install a Thorley header, practically free to upgrade R&P gears to 4.62 or 5.29, replace locking hubs in minutes and do an almost free spring-over lift while these other "better" vehicles were chores to do the same, I was quietly laughing to myself.
His enthusiasm is contagious. He's got me searching Kia's!
Lancer007 wrote: I'm possible. The engineers designing the thing wouldn't give two berkeleys about the people that have to work on it once its built. The ease of maintenance is merely a coincidence.
I find these statements irksome. I'm an engineer, and there are many others on this board. Engineers love to design things to be both high-performing and easy to maintain. They give at least two berkeleys, and probably a lot more. Their desire to design things this way is often overridden by the marketing/bean counter/etc. desire to cut costs and make more money (and I can't really blame them for that).
Wouldn't "simple" be less expensive to engineer than "complex".
I would think engineers would want to design simplicity into things simply to get to market with minimal cost.
That should translate into simple to deconstruct as well. I would think.
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