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What struts are you guys using?
Seems the only things available are GR2s and Tokico HPs. (And the Tokico S/Rs, but i'm not going to bother with those)
Need something not so... "oem-replacement-y."
To make it hard, i don't want to deal with inserts, because i'm a pansy. 
Koni makes "red" inserts--under MX3 listing. They can be converted to Sports (yellows).
You could also try using Koni 8610/8611 inserts.
We have upper line KSport RR-series coilovers (custom rates etc.) on the ZX2 now...prior we had Koni/GCs...the Konis were convertred to "yellows" and revalved a couple times, but they had a hard time keeping up with 650# springs (lots of leaking etc.). Those are in a box now...
We did the KSport route based on a big endorsement by Jim Pierce of Pierce Motorsports in LA--they have built some wicked EGT NASA cars etc. We also got a mind-blowing deal on them (working direct with KSport). I was very sceptical at first but caved on the price...after a couple of track days (and a new class track record--MCSCC at Milw. Mile roadcourse) and an autocross, I can safely say that I was wrong. They are well made and work as promised.
My understanding is that Probe/MX6 stuff is pretty close and can be made to work--no idea is this is true, and if so...I don't know if that opens up any other OTS choices.
The S/Rs are the best OTS choice--already shortened for sport springs and can handle 300/200# F/R rates...otherwise suck it up and deal with your pansyism.
ST_ZX2 wrote:Koni makes "red" inserts--under MX3 listing. They can be converted to Sports (yellows).
You could also try using Koni 8610/8611 inserts.
We have upper line KSport RR-series coilovers (custom rates etc.) on the ZX2 now...prior we had Koni/GCs...the Konis were convertred to "yellows" and revalved a couple times, but they had a hard time keeping up with 650# springs (lots of leaking etc.). Those are in a box now...
We did the KSport route based on a big endorsement by Jim Pierce of Pierce Motorsports in LA--they have built some wicked EGT NASA cars etc. We also got a mind-blowing deal on them (working direct with KSport). I was very sceptical at first but caved on the price...after a couple of track days (and a new class track record--MCSCC at Milw. Mile roadcourse) and an autocross, I can safely say that I was wrong. They are well made and work as promised.
My understanding is that Probe/MX6 stuff is pretty close and can be made to work--no idea is this is true, and if so...I don't know if that opens up any other OTS choices.
The S/Rs are the best OTS choice and can handle 300/200# F/R springs...otherwise suck it up and deal with your pansyism.
I've got 350/250 springs on the car, it's not an insane purpose-built car or anything.
I've got some Pierce parts on the car now, so the KSports are a viable option, especially when you consider what the cost of camber plates + struts is going to be.
I found the reds, but it looks like i'm going to be paying about $500 for them. Which, i'm not totally against, but if i'm paying that kind of money, i'd rather try to adapt the Probe/MX6 Illuminas, but i'm worrying about the actual length of those.
The MX6 Illumina fronts will fit with just washers/spacers to make up the difference of the narrower strut knuckle on the escort, and with the lighter ass end of this car, i'm not against just throwing GR2s or HPs on the back. Fronts are more what i'm worried about.
Is the spacer/washer idea a bad one? If it's cinched down tight enough, i don't see it causing issues, but i'm no expert, either.
I don't have stock struts right now... i've got blown HPs.
Would the reds fit in those housings? If so, how much of a pain/how easy is it to really do cartidges?
I'm on the Tokico S/Rs and have been looking for any quality, bolt-in, adjustable strut too.
In addition to the Probe/MX6 stuff maybe kind of working, I've seen newer BJ Protege stuff adapted...XelderX FSP Protege Build Basically it appears to take some washers between the strut ears and knuckle up front and washers plus some slotting in the back. I don't know how the top mounts work out.
I want to figure out if I can/what it will take to adapt WRX struts to the ZX-2. That would open up a lot of pretty decent options.
cghstang wrote:I'm on the Tokico S/Rs and have been looking for any quality, bolt-in, adjustable strut too.
In addition to the Probe/MX6 stuff maybe kind of working, I've seen newer BJ Protege stuff adapted...XelderX FSP Protege Build Basically it appears to take some washers between the strut ears and knuckle up front and washers plus some slotting in the back. I don't know how the top mounts work out.
I want to figure out if I can/what it will take to adapt WRX struts to the ZX-2. That would open up a lot of pretty decent options.
The 99+ Protege struts have a small enough shaft to work with BG top mounts to the best of my knowledge.
Unfortunately, i haven't really seen any other strut options come of it.
The Probe/MX6 stuff requires the same modifications, but they have a better strut selection, i'm still just iffy about the lengths. I actually met XelderX on the national tour when it came through here, it was amazed at how simple and budget-friendly that build was. He suggested just using the MX3 AWR coilovers if i were to try to achieve the same thing, but this isn't a dedicated race car. If we decide later to do so with it, then i'll take another look at the AWRs.
I suppose i could measure whats on my MX6, since i've got 2nd gen stuff on here, but that doesn't necessarily mean jack, depending on shaft length.
I'll run the S/Rs if i have to (maybe just in the ass end), but i've been seeing a lot of horror stories about them blowing lately, to the point that people on clubprotege are recommending GR2s over them. I'm more concerned about damping rate over longevity, though, depending on cost.
I can afford to replace S/Rs every season if i have to, but i'd rather not if i didn't have to.
I'm just trying to avoid the Ksports at the moment without giving up a huge amount of performance, merely to save some money. I'm dumping/will have dumped about $3k into this thing in 3 months, another grand will leave a bad taste in my mouth. It's just an old crusty Escort, after all.
MX6 Tokico Illuminas run about $130 each, so $260 for the front pair.
Escort GR2s run $50 a pop in the rear. (Tokico Blues are twice the price)
$360 + camber plates in front (~$200 for Cuscos, $150 for Ksports) and crash bolts in the rear...
Not too bad i guess. Just have to see if the MX6 stuff actually "works" right, and/or if it's worth to try to fit them in the back, too.
The Challenge Tracer we sponsored a while ago was running some sort of Tien coilovers. Not sure if they were made specifically for the BG chassis or something adapted from a different car.
MadScientistMatt wrote:The Challenge Tracer we sponsored a while ago was running some sort of Tien coilovers. Not sure if they were made specifically for the BG chassis or something adapted from a different car.
Probably Probe/MX6 as well... I think the only Tein stuff that's been made for the BG chassis was on the Familia GTR.
Poses the interesting idea of getting some nice used coilovers from the Probe guys, though....
In reply to MadScientistMatt:
I think he was also using BF 323 GTX and or Aspire knuckles. I'll try to find that build thread, as I recall, they were BJ Protege Struts.
Edit: Protege P5 Tein Struts. Build Thread here.
kcbhiw said:On a positive note of the build happenings, I have acquired a worthy suspension setup for the car. With many thanks to Luke (Rogue), I purchased his old Protege5 Tein suspension for a fair price. Like all other B-series chassis', the Protege5 has all 4 corners suspended with McPherson struts. To fit the P5's struts to the Tracer chassis and the aforementioned Capri front knuckles and GTX rear knuckles, the lower mounting points need to be modified. The upper mounting hole of the both the front and rear struts was lowered and moved inward to induce a fair amount of negative camber. At static ride height, found by placing a jack under the lower control arm, the front camber angle is at about -2.5°....a good starting point for a front Mac-strut. I still have to complete the assembly of the rear struts, but it's looking like rear camber should be a about -1.75°. In addition to modifying the mounting holes, I had to incorporate spacers between the knuckle and receiver on the the strut. A 3/8” plug worked perfectly for the front. As seen in the below images, I pushed the front strut toward the rear when installing the spacers to reduce the already severe caster angle. The rears knuckle, when finished, will be centered in the strut receiver. Finally, I'm employing the P5's top mounts on the front and the Tracer's top mounts in the rear. The Protege5's top mounts are significantly improved over those of the (also worn) Tracers and bolt right in. However, I'm using the Tracer's rear mounts as they mount via 2 bolts whereas the P5's mounts via 3.
Oh. THAT tracer. Yeah, i followed the build thread on that.
Seems like a lot of work. (i'm lazy)
I'm working on a compiling the strut body length, compressed and extended lengths for the MX6, BG chassis, and BJ Protege from the Monroe shocks data. I'll post it up as a picture when it's all done if anyone is interested.
cghstang wrote:I'm working on a compiling the strut body length, compressed and extended lengths for the MX6, BG chassis, and BJ Protege from the Monroe shocks data. I'll post it up as a picture when it's all done if anyone is interested.
That would be sweet! 
I need to go back and check something else, too... one of the 1G mx6 guys found something else that worked, i think it was a nissan of some kind. I can bolt 2g front struts on my 1g, and if 2g works on the Escort, the nissan whatever should work as well. Just need to find the model.
Would need to double-check with co-driver/owner, but I think we'd sell our Koni/GC stuff...but one of the fronts is leaky and needs a rebuild, and you'd want to run much softer springs (650/550). Has Cusco front plates too.
http://www.goodwinperformance.com/services.htm can freshen up the inserts very inexpensively.
What would those be worth to you?
ST_ZX2 wrote:Would need to double-check with co-driver/owner, but I think we'd sell our Koni/GC stuff...but one of the fronts is leaky and needs a rebuild, and you'd want to run much softer springs (650/550). Has Cusco front plates too.
http://www.goodwinperformance.com/services.htm can freshen up the inserts very inexpensively.
What would those be worth to you?
Would those just be cartridges, or the full setup?
I'm not sure on worth at the moment, if i can't stay significantly cheaper than the KSports, i'll just go with them.
I'd only be using 350/250 springs if i go the new strut route.
Check with him first if you don't mind, and message me what you guys would come off of that stuff for?
It would be for it all--I'd want to give you the springs too and have you re-sell ($60-70/pr is a very fair price). You'd be plug-n-play except for dialing in the springs (6"x2.5) and getting the one strut freshend up.
BC racing also sells a set of coilovers for the BG chassis.
Okay, here's what Monroe has to say about their struts for the various options discussed:
Strut Types:
The slight differences between all the BG chassis variants is interesting knowing that any any of those can be interchanged.
Looks like I'll probably go with BJ Protege stuff when I upgrade but I have pretty different goals than most of you guys.
Wow that's REALLY interesting... so what i'm seeing here is that the 2nd gen MX6/Probe stuff is probably BETTER for autox purposes if i'm reading that right?
Plus that they would typically be valved for a heavier car?
Hopefully Eric and i can work something out, but if not, i'll be using the 2nd gen Probe/MX6 stuff it looks like.
Honestly man, most zx2 guys and other bg chassis run the tokico s/r struts. I have them with ground control sleeves and they have been fine for the last 3 years (daily driven and autocrossed on). Not to mention replacing an entire set is only 200 bucks shipped.
corby_baby wrote:Honestly man, most zx2 guys and other bg chassis run the tokico s/r struts. I have them with ground control sleeves and they have been fine for the last 3 years (daily driven and autocrossed on). Not to mention replacing an entire set is only 200 bucks shipped.
I'm just worried that they don't have the damping power i need/want.
I see people saying that the GR2s perform better/feel stiffer. Granted, these aren't really people that are doing anything other than showing off their fly whip and blah blah blah... but i hate spending money twice, you know?
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I'm just worried that they don't have the damping power i need/want.
I see people saying that the GR2s perform better/feel stiffer. Granted, these aren't really people that are doing anything other than showing off their fly whip and blah blah blah... but i hate spending money twice, you know?
well they definitely are not adjustable but if you want to go that route, be prepared to spend some money. there is 1 guy that i know of running 450/325 ground controls on S/R tokico without any problems (not to mention he autocrosses the piss outta his car). the majority of the bg chassis guys run the S/R's from what ive seen.
corby_baby wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I'm just worried that they don't have the damping power i need/want.
I see people saying that the GR2s perform better/feel stiffer. Granted, these aren't really people that are doing anything other than showing off their fly whip and blah blah blah... but i hate spending money twice, you know?
well they definitely are not adjustable but if you want to go that route, be prepared to spend some money. there is 1 guy that i know of running 450/325 ground controls on S/R tokico without any problems (not to mention he autocrosses the piss outta his car). the majority of the bg chassis guys run the S/R's from what ive seen.
Gotcha. Well, if Erik and i can't work out a deal, i'll just slap some S/Rs on there and see where the chips lie. Thanks. 
Yeah, at least if it's wrong, it won't cost a lot and you can probably resell for 50% or something along those lines. It does seem like Illumas or something else from the MX-6 would be a nice option if easily adapted.
Related thread on ClubProtege. Some interesting information in there:
http://www.clubprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51910
Apparently MS adjustables from the 99+ Protege bolt in, but they're $250 apiece new.
GAB used to make adjustables for the BG chassis, and there's another company or two mentioned in there.
pres589 wrote:Yeah, at least if it's wrong, it won't cost a lot and you can probably resell for 50% or something along those lines. It does seem like Illumas or something else from the MX-6 would be a nice option if easily adapted.
The front is easy to adapt, i'm still trying to figure out exactly what needs to be done for the rear. If i have to, i'll get the Escort and my MX6 side by side and see what the differences are.
