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ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
7/7/16 4:26 p.m.

Hello all,

I have a really nicely taken care of original 1984 944 NA with a blown head gasket. I have been going back and forth for some time as to how to move forward with this car. I originally thought that an LS1 swap was the best route. Being a father and a full time student, I don't think that is financially viable. My other option is to pull the head, fix the problem, do the valves, and install megasquirt to try and remedy most of the electronic issues that are very well known in 944's.

I have scoured the internet and have not found many write ups on people using MS in NA 944 applications. Plenty of people are using it with 951's and I believe DIY sells a plug and play ecu for twin cam 944's.

I guess what I am asking is where to start? MS2? or can I get by building an MS1 and adding on later. I would like to stay simple to start with, but would eventually like to go distributerless. Or, is the best option to go ahead and bite the bullet on a COP setup while I have everything apart?

I rarely post but always lurk, please don't roast me too bad for stupid questions. Honestly, fuel injection is pretty far out of my wheel house. I tend to stick to carbureted automobiles, and Power Commanders have made the motorcycle game so simple, I've never had to put much brain power into the subject. So I submit to you guys and gals another "Learn me" thread.... Please be gentle...

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) MegaDork
7/7/16 5:48 p.m.

The issue with Megasquirting the 944 is that it doesn't gain you very much over the stock capabilities of the original engine.

That said, the main issue with MegaSquirt on a 944 is that the OE crank trigger isn't compatible, requiring you to add a crank sensor and pickup. You'll need to fabricate this from scratch using a generic trigger wheel and a spare crank pulley and a mount for the pickup.

COP doesn't work on the 944 8V engine, the closest you'll get would be LS coils.

ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
7/7/16 6:09 p.m.

I'm honestly not looking at this as a a performance modification, more of a way to remedy the dark cloud hanging over my head that is surprise dme/ecu failure.

So it seems I should just plan on switching over to EDIS for ignition from the start and do it all at once.

The most attractive option, with the prevalence of cheap 944 engines locally, would be to snag a decent engine and do all the work I plan on doing on the stand. The. Just swap motors and patch in MS ecu of choice.

Which MS version would you suggest building for this application?

ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
7/7/16 6:12 p.m.

Also, Stefan, I notice you're a Portland person as well, howdy neighbor.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:13 p.m.

I would disagree with that some. Taking control of the ignishen really peps it up. the stock maps lay over around 5800-6000. Changing that and overall upping the timing on tehse really helps. Remember these were designed back in the late 70's early 80's and the fuel was no where near as good or as consistant so they had to be conservative. I have done a tome with MS in 944's.

I am at the office so I can not get to much more in to this at hte moment but this should get you on your way.

MS TO DME

DME-TO-MS

I have a complete wiring harness from a 944 with all sensors injectors and everything from a 944 on my bench hooked up with a MS2V3 and a stim. To play/test my wiring shown above so I can make sure it all worked prior to install on the very soon to be new to me 1987 944 that I am picking up this weekend.

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) MegaDork
7/7/16 6:16 p.m.

Personally, I'd look at updating to a newer version of the ECU, but then again the failures are mostly with the relay or bad solder joints. Both easily resolved on your own.

That said, MS1 is sufficient for your needs, but the MS2 has more features and more information available.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:18 p.m.

Here is the whole spaghetti mess on the bench. I have since eliminated the resistors and dealt with the low ohm injectors internally with the MS settings.

I have had this setup cycle for hours on the bench to make sure it is bullet proof.

Ohya I will be going EDIS as well using a 72-1-1 trigger wheel mounted on the cam in place of the cap and rotor. My other car has been running this for 7 years using the MJLJr control box for EDIS.

2012-06-21_08-33-23_138

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) MegaDork
7/7/16 6:20 p.m.

In reply to dean1484:

True, but to get there requires a lot of dyno time, which is outside of the realm of many.

In reply to ahutson03:

Howdy! If you're on Facebook, drop by the local 924/944 support group and say hi:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/252487288199713/

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:20 p.m.
Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: Personally, I'd look at updating to a newer version of the ECU, but then again the failures are mostly with the relay or bad solder joints. Both easily resolved on your own. That said, MS1 is sufficient for your needs, but the MS2 has more features and more information available.

There are reasons why you can not do that.

Re soldering the DME is simple. I would go MS2 because I have done all the work for you already and have no problem sharing.

ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
7/7/16 6:22 p.m.

Dean I read your thread on wiring on your 924s (if I remember correctly). I guess I'm at the point now where I am wondering if it is worth the effort, and weighing that with the fact that I've wanted to try building an MS for quite some time now. That coupled with the fact that the car is down right now and I will at the very least be removing the head, it seems like a good time to tinker if I am going to tinker.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:25 p.m.
Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: In reply to dean1484: True, but to get there requires a lot of dyno time, which is outside of the realm of many. In reply to ahutson03: Howdy! If you're on Facebook, drop by the local 924/944 support group and say hi: https://www.facebook.com/groups/252487288199713/

Never had my car on a dyno. A wide band was all I needed for the stand alown EDIS ignishen. This was the best mod I made to mycar running wise. the Multi spark built in the the EDIS unit really helps at idle and off idle. I dont think it added any real HP to the car it just woke it up and made it run smoother.

As for tuning a full on MS system. Yes at the end of the day some dyno time is needed to get every last bit out of it and or if you dont want to mess with it. I have had really good luck with tuner studio and the auto tune.

The real deal with MS is you have have to have some experience with EFI and ignishen systems and be willing to take the time to lean the rest. It is not plug and play. If you want plug and play run far away from MS on a 944 (unless it is the later ones that the offer as a plug and play but that only works in the cars that are post speed and refrence sensors 1990 on I think??

ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
7/7/16 6:29 p.m.
Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: In reply to ahutson03: Howdy! If you're on Facebook, drop by the local 924/944 support group and say hi: https://www.facebook.com/groups/252487288199713/

Just sent a request to join, thanks!

And in reply to Dean, thanks for letting me jump off your hard work, I'm 90% ready to order an ms2 kit tonight.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:31 p.m.

In reply to ahutson03:

Since this would be your first would say get the ar back up and running with the stock DME and make sure it is all as it should be. Then and only then start a MS conversion.

My real motivation is that I have a M62 supercharger that will be "pluged in" to my 944 and the only way to do that is with the MS and a couple other mods.

I am going with bigger injectors. 34lb units from super coup

I am changing it over to a MAP based system to both better be able to deal with the boost but also to get rid of the hugely restrictive AFM

The last change I am making is I am using the Throttle body from a 951 as it has a pot in it that gives actual TPS readings as opposed to the throtal body on the NA cars that are a simple on off switch at WOT and changes the system to closed loop.

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) MegaDork
7/7/16 6:31 p.m.

In reply to dean1484:

You do realize I've had MS1nExtra running EDIS on my 2.0L 924 with ITB's for quite a while, right?

For the newb, that is a huge undertaking and nearly impossible to do without some background first, so I suggest leaving the ignition curve alone and focus on getting it running as good as stock by getting the fuel tuned decently well.

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) MegaDork
7/7/16 6:33 p.m.

In reply to ahutson03:

Excellent. Looking forward to saying hi there.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:37 p.m.

I must be weird I went with ignishen first on my car. to me it was the simplest part of the whole thing.

I completely agree with you re being a newb. It is lots of reading research and learning. Go in to this with the understanding that you will hit walls and you will be stumped and you will have those moments when you cross up the power and eh ground in you MS unit and the white smoke of death starts coming out of the case. . . .. . Ya been there.. . . .

Baby steps are key to this but it is also lots of fun and you will lean so much about how EFI works.

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:40 p.m.

On old screen shot form bench testing

MS dashboard 6-16-12

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:40 p.m.

And you will need this as well.

SENSOR WIRING

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:41 p.m.

And this

PORSCHE WIRE COLOR CHART

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:42 p.m.

PLUG ON HARNES

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:43 p.m.

2012-04-01_13-40-02_674

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:43 p.m.

2012-04-01_13-40-11_529

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:44 p.m.

Better Photo of this.

2012-04-16_12-04-10_917

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
7/7/16 6:46 p.m.

2012-04-16_12-06-20_859

The connection using a gutted DME to the stock wiring harness. And again the resistors are no longer there. Also note all the blue tape. Labeling everything is probably the most important thing to do when trying this.

ahutson03
ahutson03 Reader
7/7/16 6:52 p.m.

the car was running great on stock everything. It developed a head gasket leak on the oil passage to the passenger side of the #4 piston, causing a lovely oil leak right on to the exhaust manifold collector. I'm pretty sure it was a result of a sticking oprv (old style) that is being remedied at the same time.

The ignition is not as intimidating to me as the FI, EDIS is pretty straight forward and I think the only thing that scares me about the FI is that I know how to make carbs work back to front, but adding electricity to the mix makes me wary haha. I have 100% faith in my potential to wrap my head around it, just need to ask lots of questions. So for me, i'd honestly like to have a comprehensive plan to knock as much of this out as I can in one fell swoop.

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