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Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 12:29 p.m.

What if Margarat Thatcher had been Prime Minister through 70's rather than coming in in 1979?  Could she have crushed the unions like she did in the 80's?  If so, would the various branches of BL have not been so strike and investment hobbled and actually put money into their products.  Where would Jag, Rover, MG, Triumph, Morris, Austin, Leyland etc. be today? 

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 12:31 p.m.

What if Daimler hadn't been bought by Jaguar (from BSA)?  Would they have survived?  Would there be less  confusion on this side of the pond between Daimler the car company and Daimler Benz the owners of Mercedes?

8valve
8valve Reader
9/6/18 12:31 p.m.

MR Miata concept beats out the FF and FR..

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 12:32 p.m.

What would have happened if John DeLorean wasn't caught on tape buying 60lb's of cocaine ?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 12:36 p.m.

What would have happened if Didier Pironi hadn't passed Villeneuve at San Marino?  Would they both still be here and how many championships would each have won against the Prost/Piquet/Senna/Mansel battle that raged for the next decade?  Also if it weren't for that would we have ever had Nico Rosberg in F1 if Keke hadn't won the 82 title?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 12:37 p.m.

Where would Indy car be now if someone had taken out a hit on Tony Geroge in late 93/early 94?

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
9/6/18 12:55 p.m.
8valve said:

MR Miata concept beats out the FF and FR..

Anybody else think the one on the left (FWD Miata concept) looks a lot like an Escort ZX2 if you cut an extra opening between the headlights? The picture I've seen of it in profile was even closer.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
9/6/18 1:01 p.m.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

The middle one is the Capri, a far as I can see.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 1:04 p.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

The middle one is the Capri, a far as I can see.

Are you viewing on your phone?  Very different from the Mazda Capri, it even has air intakes for the mid engine transverse power train a-la MR2.  The one of the left has the proportions of a FWD platform, but the middle one is certainly mid engined.

8valve
8valve Reader
9/6/18 1:31 p.m.

Or what if the FF won out?

PHAN
PHAN New Reader
9/6/18 2:00 p.m.

This one is a bit more recent but.... what if the rumored Hyundai/FCA merger actually took place? (Rumors are still swirling even after Hyundai has denied them) Would we be seeing Stinger AWD Hellcats in the future? Would the next generation Alfa Guilia be a badge engineered Genesis g70? Will the upcoming Hyundai Santa Fe light truck receive a RAM version? Perhaps we'd see an entry level convertible sports car badged as a Hyundai?

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
9/6/18 2:37 p.m.
PHAN said:

This one is a bit more recent but.... what if the rumored Hyundai/FCA merger actually took place? (Rumors are still swirling even after Hyundai has denied them) Would we be seeing Stinger AWD Hellcats in the future? Would the next generation Alfa Guilia be a badge engineered Genesis g70? Will the upcoming Hyundai Santa Fe light truck receive a RAM version? Perhaps we'd see an entry level convertible sports car badged as a Hyundai?

Cool thought.  My interpretation would be:

Would we be seeing Stinger AWD Hellcats in the future?  - Nope

Would the next generation Alfa Guilia be a badge engineered Genesis g70?  - Yup

Will the upcoming Hyundai Santa Fe light truck receive a RAM version? - Sure

Perhaps we'd see an entry level convertible sports car badged as a Hyundai? - Nope.

RossD
RossD MegaDork
9/6/18 2:58 p.m.

What if the Tempo AWD really caught on?

fidelity101
fidelity101 UltraDork
9/6/18 3:45 p.m.

What would happen to Danica Patrick's racing career if she wasn't associated with crashing often? 

What if the oil embargo never stopped? 

what if people actually maintained their cars and used winter tires according to road conditions? 

What if Marry Barra bought FCA as Marchionne wanted before pestering her with insults and such?

 

also I think the best recent rumor was that FCA would merge with VW but the whole dieselgate spent a lot of their available "spare cash" so to speak... 

 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
9/6/18 4:36 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson said:

What if Margarat Thatcher had been Prime Minister through 70's rather than coming in in 1979?  Could she have crushed the unions like she did in the 80's?  If so, would the various branches of BL have not been so strike and investment hobbled and actually put money into their products.  Where would Jag, Rover, MG, Triumph, Morris, Austin, Leyland etc. be today? 

Clarkson's Car Years did a story about the downfall of BL in specific and the UK auto industry in general.  Worth a watch and it's on YouTube.  Set aside an hour to see it if you haven't already.

 

The short version is, striking workers played a part, but so did inept management, a flush of much better imports and no real desire to compete against them, and how pretty much every manufacturer was controlled by a single company, causing a lack of market competition while still suffering from internal clannishness.

8valve
8valve Reader
9/6/18 5:58 p.m.
RossD said:

What if the Tempo AWD really caught on?

Would have needed twice the hp for that to have happened.  How about the 65 Mustang awd?  Or the 1987 Daytona awd? Test mules of both were built.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
9/6/18 6:32 p.m.
8valve said:
RossD said:

What if the Tempo AWD really caught on?

Would have needed twice the hp for that to have happened. 

 

Contemporary AWD compact cars had about the same power.  Audi 4000s had 110 and Subarus had 85ish.  (DLs with the pushrod engine had 66hp!)

8valve
8valve Reader
9/6/18 6:39 p.m.

Yeah but when I hear "really caught on" I think like DSM or WRX type following.  I think a Daytona AWD with the 2.2 DOHC turbo intercooled setup would have been awesome, but who knows if it would have sold.  Ford and Dodge probably knew what they were doing when they axed the Mustang and Daytona awds.  The MR or FF layouts may have turned the miata into a sales flop too.

 

P3PPY
P3PPY New Reader
9/6/18 7:00 p.m.

What if the Pantera had been sold in Ford dealerships instead of Lincoln/Mercury?

Maybe someone hit on this already, but regarding the crash of '08 what if it hadn't happened and we ended up with the Pontiac ElCamino? What if all of Pontiac had made the conversion to RWD from down under? What if Pontiac and Dodge were in a full-lineup RWD horsepower war?

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
9/6/18 11:44 p.m.

What might have happened if Daimler hadn't gutted (merged indecision) Chrysler in the late 90s? Chrysler seemed to be out innovating all the domestics. The weren't afraid to try damn near anything.

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
9/7/18 5:39 a.m.
Knurled. said:
8valve said:
RossD said:

What if the Tempo AWD really caught on?

Would have needed twice the hp for that to have happened. 

 

Contemporary AWD compact cars had about the same power.  Audi 4000s had 110 and Subarus had 85ish.  (DLs with the pushrod engine had 66hp!)

Ford would have had to offered it with a manual, but unfortunately there was no parts-bin solution. I remember hearing BITD that the AWD system was fragile too. Lastly the Tempo/Topaz was just not a good car or chassis, even by contemporary standards. 

Where Ford screwed up was by not bringing over either the Cosworth, or the Aussie BG chassis Escort/323 GT mashup. Or both. 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt PowerDork
9/7/18 7:05 a.m.

Plus, the Tempo AWD drivetrain wasn't nearly as sophisticated as Subaru's or Audi's. Just a locking clutch, no center diff.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
9/7/18 12:03 p.m.
MadScientistMatt said:

Plus, the Tempo AWD drivetrain wasn't nearly as sophisticated as Subaru's or Audi's. Just a locking clutch, no center diff.

Audi had a lockable center diff, but Subarus of the era were exactly the same.  Front wheel drive, or you could push a button/move a lever and you'd lock the rear diff to the front one.

 

Literally in the case of the Tempo.  Its power takeoff unit replaced the trans pan, and it grabbed power off of the ring gear.

NickD
NickD UberDork
9/8/18 7:39 a.m.
Knurled. said: 

...and Subarus had 85ish.  (DLs with the pushrod engine had 66hp!)

A whirly clattery 85hp, at that. I still love those old cars though

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
9/8/18 9:08 a.m.

In reply to NickD :

Yeah, I miss mine sometimes.  Or at least I think I do.  I forget the rust and the really bad brakes and it wasn't that it handled well, it was more that it couldn't go fast enough to tax the chassis.  The damping and spring rates were PERFECT for sailing over rough roads and jumping railroad tracks though.

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