Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
1/17/18 8:13 a.m.

2000 basr model.

Its started making noise, and its either a worn out clutch, throwout bearing, hydraulics not operating properly, or a trans taking a dump.

Noise is primarily when changing gears, bit of a whiney grinding noise. More prevalent in 1-3 vs 3-5. Clutch release is at top 1/3 of pedal travel. Clutch master cylender is halfway between min and max, and i know ive added some in the last 20k.

 

Anyway, diagnostics first: what should i do to pinpoint the issue? Preferably from the top side, but....

 

Secondly: if i have to change clutch parts, i want to learn about flywheels. I see a lot of options there of varying weights.  This thing is a daily driver so max performance is not a concern. Driving joy is. What compromises would have to be made with a lighter flywheel, and what weight should i look at? Only lightweight flywheel ive ever messed with was an aluminium one in a d16z6 swapped crx si, and i don't remember it baing a pain.....

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
1/17/18 8:16 a.m.

Get the clutch happy meal from Flyin' Miata, and replace both the master and slave cylinders. No need to go crazy on a DD. 

NickD
NickD UltraDork
1/17/18 8:35 a.m.

I run the FM 10lb aluminum flywheel on my 1.6L with 4.10 gears. Honestly, I didn't notice much difference performance-wise. It takes a little (very little) getting used to, mainly just a little more rpm at takeoff.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
1/17/18 8:40 a.m.

Is there an mpg or joy benifit to the lighter flywheel? If not, i dont see the need for this car.

Pete: trying to avoid throwing everything at it if i can help it. Think maintification: if its broke, upgrade. If its not, or an upgrade isn't worth the cost, then stock will do.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
1/17/18 8:43 a.m.

I'm also running the 10lb FM flywheel on my VVT swapped NA.  Works great.  I've had some cars in the past with light flywheels that were a PITA... the Miata just drives like a stocker.

Start your diagnostics with the hydraulics.  Slave cylinder failures are common, and cheap to fix... new master/slave with SS line is ~$55. 

From your description, it sounds like it may be in the throwout or PP, though.  If you have to pull the trans, you might as well just do it all while you're in there.  The FM combo isn't cheap, but it works great, and drives like an OEM clutch.

NickD
NickD UltraDork
1/17/18 8:56 a.m.
Dusterbd13 said:

Is there an mpg or joy benifit to the lighter flywheel? If not, i dont see the need for this car.

It'll make the engine rev faster. Like I said, I didn't really notice it on my 1.6L but they already came with a smaller and lighter clutch assembly than the 1.8Ls, so it might have made less of a difference. Tradeoff is it stores less inertia, so it needs more rpm to get moving, and they also may transmit more noise and vibration. I know that the Fidanza flywheels for Miatas supposedly "sing" really badly.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
1/17/18 9:35 a.m.

In reply to Rodan :

Got a link to the $55 Clutch hydraulics package?

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 HalfDork
1/17/18 9:50 a.m.

It could be the pilot bearing.  The one on my MSM at 120k miles was very rough.  It's certainly one of those "while your in there" things to replace with the clutch.

I have the FM clutch happy meal with the 13 lb. flywheel.  It tachs up faster with just a little more sensitivity to stalling.  My only issue with it is that you need to carefully adjust the clutch pedal to optimize throw, because it needs all of it.  But in typical fashion, the FM instructions are quite clear on how to do this.

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
1/17/18 10:51 a.m.

My slave cylinder took a dump on my car and the cheapest replacement was like 12 bucks on amazon and worked perfectly.  Then I noticed the clutch getting just a bit soft for hard launches and found a used stage one Happy Meal with a 10 lb flywheel for about 1/2 the price of new (with less than 3,000 miles on it).  Well worth it.  It's about 8 lbs off the rotating assembly and makes the engine feel so much more "lively".  It's what Mazda should have done factory.

Replacing a Miata clutch isn't a terrible job, it took me probably 3 hours with plenty of beer and a helpful friend.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
1/17/18 11:23 a.m.
Dusterbd13 said:

In reply to Rodan :

Got a link to the $55 Clutch hydraulics package?

949 Clutch Hydraulics kit

FM has similar parts for just a few $ more, or you can source the master and slave locally and just order the SS line.

 

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett MegaDork
1/17/18 12:50 p.m.
Dusterbd13 said:

Is there an mpg or joy benifit to the lighter flywheel? If not, i dont see the need for this car.

Pete: trying to avoid throwing everything at it if i can help it. Think maintification: if its broke, upgrade. If its not, or an upgrade isn't worth the cost, then stock will do.

The master & slave are pretty cheap, the slave is much easier to change while you're already there, and Murphy's Law has proven time & time again they both will fail within close succession of one another. If this was a toy I'd say don't worry about it, but as your DD and a necessity for your livelihood, I'd strongly recommend doing it all now, once, and not worry about it for another ~100k. 

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane Dork
1/17/18 1:30 p.m.

Another vote for a pilot bearing in a 2000..  Every one I've seen with >80k has been toast.

Also another vote for happy meal and hydraulics, then you'll be happier and won't have any problems for a long, long time.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 MegaDork
1/30/18 3:08 p.m.

Skipped the happy meal due to cost, but ordered a clutch, all hydraulics, pilot bearing and throwout bearing. 

Now to figure out how much time to allocate on the lift.

KyAllroad (Jeremy)
KyAllroad (Jeremy) PowerDork
1/30/18 3:21 p.m.

Bunch of little steps.  Figure on taking the day but can be less if you're a talented and experienced wrench.  

Getting the trans out without removing the mid-pipe was a bit tricky.

 Pull the shifter boot before you start working under the car, it's easier that way.

good luck!

goingnowherefast
goingnowherefast New Reader
1/30/18 3:25 p.m.

949 Racing kit or FM Happy meal. As said, it's a good idea to replace cylinders and they are cheap and easy. 

NickD
NickD UltraDork
1/30/18 3:33 p.m.

Weekend job, with a lift. I did it in two weekends at my house but that was on the ground in a sorta-heated garage in NY winter with a recalcitrant Hazard Fraught transmission jack, plus I had to fix a bunch of stuff that the dinkus who previously worked on it screwed up.

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 HalfDork
1/30/18 3:40 p.m.

I've done it by myself on jack stands in under 8 hours.  The worst part is finding the right combination of extensions with u-joints/wobbles to reach the top bolts. You will need some fairly long extensions to get to the ones on top.

The last time I did this, one of the trans bolts (just under the clutch slave) was seized probably due to being soaked for years in hydraulic fluid.  Don't remove the PPF, just take the trans end bolts and the rearmost bolt out and swing it out of the way.  I also remove the shifter first (the boots may be shot) and hang the rear of the trans using a loop of rope from something spanning the shifter hole.  The rope can be slipped off when lowering the trans, but this helps keep it aligned while engaging the splines into the clutch.  If you have a lift and a good transmission jack, this won't be a problem.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
1/30/18 4:11 p.m.

I've done it on jackstands between sessions laugh

Put a short socket between the oil pan and the steering rack when the trans is unhooked - the engine will try to go nose-down and this makes it a real pain to line up the splines.

Basically, once a noise starts happening inside the bellhousing and you're not rocking new parts in there, just do it all - pilot, throwout, friction disc, pressure plate, rear main seal. Flywheel optional but fun. It's not worth the labor to just do part of it.

AWSX1686
AWSX1686 Dork
1/31/18 10:29 a.m.

I have a lightweight flywheel in my 95 1.8. Got the happy meal from FM. It revs noticeably faster, but some torque is lost so it takes slightly more rpms on takeoff. I like it though. 

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