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  Oct. 6, 2010 12:19 a.m. Mikey52_1 Reader

  Okay , here's one I haven't found yet...I'm looking at a turbo 600E Dodge (same one I asked about a few days ago, 'nuther thread...). Natch, being a 600E, it's an auto. So then...are there any reliable mods for beefing a 418 tranny? I haven't found a shift kit for it yet. Maybe there WAS one, back in the day, but since it's 15+ years old, notsomuch now.

  Having a fair amount of experience with autos, and knowing that 'shift kits' frequently use a few well-placed holes in divider plates, with a $40 instruction sheet, is there such a thing for the FWD Torqueflite?

  Or alternatively, should I just start looking for a 5 speed manual setup and swap it out? I'm entirely comfortable with either way to cure the slushbox blues. What say ye, GRMers?

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  Oct. 6, 2010 12:32 a.m. Ranger50 Reader

  You mean 413? New nomenclature makes it a 32TH.

  Should be plenty of crap for those crapcans available still.

  Brian

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  Oct. 6, 2010 1:23 a.m. Travis_K Dork

  You can get tons of parts for the automatics, there are people running in the 9s with them and not exploding them. For a street car id go with a 5 speed, but pedals to fit that platform are hard to find.

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  Oct. 6, 2010 6:22 a.m. Rob_Mopar Reader

  The 413 for all purposes is a scaled down Torqueflite. I think TransGo might have the shift kits. I'd have to do a little digging. From what I remember the later V6 413's had some improved guts and firmer shifting stock. Find a dead mid '90's 3.0 minivan for the donor.

  The 600E is part of the K family. Not sure but I'd bet a 5-speed pedal assembly from a Daytona or Shadow could be made to work if it isn't already a direct bolt-in.

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  Oct. 6, 2010 7:12 a.m. Pat Reader

  Rob_Mopar wrote:

  The 413 for all purposes is a scaled down Torqueflite. I think TransGo might have the shift kits. I'd have to do a little digging. From what I remember the later V6 413's had some improved guts and firmer shifting stock. Find a dead mid '90's 3.0 minivan for the donor.

  The 600E is part of the K family. Not sure but I'd bet a 5-speed pedal assembly from a Daytona or Shadow could be made to work if it isn't already a direct bolt-in.

  The pedal assembly in my K car is from a Daytona. I didn't do the install, but I've had it apart. Looks to me like it was a bolt in.

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  Oct. 6, 2010 12:09 p.m. Vigo HalfDork

  Ive 5-speed swapped a k-car (600 being one) and its no different from swapping anything else like a daytona, lebaron, shadow, etc etc.

  The only fwd k-based platform that used SLIGHTLY different pedals were the 5spd minivans.

  Anywho, that trans can be modded to high heaven, as far as you want to go. shift kits, pressure bleeds, blocked accumulators, governor weights and springs, band struts, welded bands, more clutches stuffed into the packs, reinforced cases, different transfer gear ratios, different ring and pinion sets, custom converters, lockup clutches, limited slips, etc etc etc.

  Ive done a few stock rebuilds on them and im familiar with the innards. I keep meaning to build one up but i end up 5spd swapping everything instead. I do have one car that WILL stay auto no matter what that ill be building a modded, lockup 413 for.

  Anywho, whether you keep the auto or 5spd swap is up to you.. but the sky is pretty much the limit with the auto, especially if you never try to put down 600+hp on 26"+ slicks. Just depends on how much you want to spend.

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  Oct. 6, 2010 12:19 p.m. Knurled HalfDork

  The auto is a way better trans than any FWD manual trans that they made.

  FWIW, supposedly, a lot of performance V8 torque converters start as FWD four-cylinder pieces...

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  Oct. 6, 2010 1:16 p.m. psteav Reader

  Knurled wrote:

  The auto is a way better trans than any FWD manual trans that they made.

  FWIW, supposedly, a lot of performance V8 torque converters start as FWD four-cylinder pieces...

  "Better" how? Tougher? More long-lived? The 413 is generally pretty tough, even in stock form. It's not bad, as automatics go.

  The five-speeds they put in the turbo mopars varied so much in terms of durability, longevity and shift quality that you can't really make a blanket statement like that.

  I've never driven anything with an A-525, but if the shifter is as notchy as the A-555 in my Shelby Daytona, I'd pass. The A-568 in my Spirit R/T, OTOH, had a good shifter for an FWD car (it's no Miata) and was plenty durable as well.

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  Oct. 6, 2010 1:56 p.m. turboswede SuperDork

  The A-555 had really heavy gears and was notoriously notchy. The Shift forks also bent or broke quite often due to ham-fisted drivers who refused to wait for the syncro's to do their jobs.

  The A-525 was less notchy (at least until the linkage fell apart) but was very, very weak.

  The A-520 was less notchy than the 555, but used the same basic structure as the 555 (same case, 2-pinion differential with slightly weaker gears).

  Some have combined the 520 and 555 gear sets to get a pretty strong transaxle with close ratio gearing like the 525's used in the turbos.

  The 523 and 568 were the updated versions of the 520 and 555 respectively. New shift pattern and better shifter cable solution along with other improvements resulted in a large gain in precision.

  The 523/568/543 (V6) were all basically the same inside and the 5-speeds used in the 1st-gen Neons were also essentially the same as well. In fact the "Booger" bushings used to improve the shifter cables ends are nearly the same between the generations.

  However, all of the generations suffered from oiling issues as the transaxles were oiled using the gears to walk the oil up to a channel in the mainshaft. Usually the oil wouldn't reach the far end of the shaft and the end of the shaft would wear out and fail.

  Anyone running serious power through one, really should add a differential pump, filter and cooler to improve oil quality and quantity.

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  Oct. 6, 2010 2:19 p.m. Vigo HalfDork

  Yeah, youd have to define better before saying that..

  Pretty much all the transmissions from 87-on (520, 555, 523, 543, 568) can handle a bunch of power without breaking.

  And as far as the 413, in all honesty they have lots of everyday issues that dont have to do with power handling, like sticking governors, 2-3 flareup, delayed engagement, transfer gears backing off and eating the side cover, etc. Unlike newer self-monitoring trans like the electrically-controlled 604, as the 413 gets old and wears down it just acts worse and worse until you finally have to rebuild it. And just because you rebuilt it doesnt mean it's going to do exactly what you want.. if you're very particular about it you'll probably end up changing springs and weights clearances and all sorts of crap to get 100% what you want.

  Whereas with the manual, unless you destroy the synchros or run it low on fluid, its pretty much gonna do its thing forever, and every shift is however you want it to be.

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  Oct. 6, 2010 5:37 p.m. Mikey52_1 Reader

  Okay, excellent! Thank you! Now I know...

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  Oct. 6, 2010 6:03 p.m. Vigo HalfDork

  Anyone running serious power through one, really should add a differential pump, filter and cooler to improve oil quality and quantity.

  To be honest, ive been on the k-car forums for a solid decade now, and i have never ever heard of anyone running any kind of extra gear on any of the 5spds. Not to be rude here, but that advice really doesnt apply to this platform in any practical sense.

  There are multiple 5spd k-cars in the 10s (400+Hp, sometimes 500+) and their biggest problem is clutches, an area which has made major progress in the last few years and now has more than one setup that noone has found the limits of (500+hp, one guy made 600hp on the dyno).

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