Got my first taste of autocrossing on the weekend and while I had a hoot in the wagon, I can now see why so many people think Miata is the answer.
But I find myself lusting after a 2nd gen MR2 turbo.
I know the AW11 has been argued before but I haven't seen much discussion here on the SW20 turbo model. The more research I do, the more I want one and the more I wonder why MR2 isn't the answer. Too heavy? Too expensive? Do they burst into flames? Smell funny? What?
The n/a SW20 is a competitive car in it's stock class...
There are a few people autocrossing SW20 Turbos as well, and doing well.
They "aren't" the answer because there aren't as many of them, and they can be a handful once you reach the power levels necessary to compete in SP and SM classes.
I say, go for it. They DO handle beautifully, but just bear in mind that the ragged edge can turn into spinning quite quickly.
If you like them, race them. If you're wanting to win @ Nationals, probably not the best choice, but they're great, GREAT cars.
I drive an N/A SW20 in E Stock. As a local autocross/daily driver, I think it's ideal. I dunno, guess a Miata could say the same thing. But it seems like it's only the "serious" Miatas that can beat me. I could be wrong, but the SW20 seems easier to set up, and all the info is out there. I have a '91 with Takico struts all around and the big ST front bar. I run on Kumho V710s. So it's all the "second class" stuff, and my car has T Tops. But even with all that, it's plenty fast and a good driver can post a really good finish with it.
Only problem - it's getting a lot harder to find a clean one. And if you want to build a "serious" E Stock SW20 you have to find a '93 hardtop, which is really difficult to find.
I had a MR2 Turbo that I autocrossed for many years back in the '90's. It was definitely a fun car, but it really, really needs good shocks and at a minimum a bigger front bar. Stiffer bushings are also a must in my opinion, but will throw you out of stock class.
Ideally I would have loved to go street prepared but never did. In stock form, it suffers from lift throttle oversteer worse than all the other variants, mainly due to the weight being greater over the back wheels. It also has a tendency to wear the rear tires at an alarming rate. The best I EVER got was around 15k miles, most of the time about 10k. Fronts will last forever basically.
I used to average in the mid to high 20's for fuel mileage, and after seven years of stock, I rebuilt the engine and ended up with about 300rwhp.
To this day I wish I had never sold it, but I had a 944 Turbo at the time too, and it in the end is a much better car. Looking back, I would reverse that decision now however. The MR2 would have been the easiest to live with in the long run. But, I want a hardtop model and they are very rare in factory turbo form.
I also had a hardtop NA 2nd gen MR2 as well, and don't overlook those for autocross good times!
Around 10 years ago I was running my 90 Miata in ES. There was one guy, in an NA SW20, who would ALWAYS beat me, no matter how well I drove. One day, during fun runs, I took a ride with him in his car. And I understood why he always beat me. Not only was he an excellent driver, the car was simply more capable than my Miata. Turn-in response was quicker than any Miata will ever be, thanks to it having the engine in the back. It accelerated better. It turned better. I don't remember if it stopped better, but with 2 out of 3, the MR2 had the advantage in the hands of a skilled driver.
I'd still say the Miata is the easier car to drive fast. It's very forgiving, unlike a mid-engine car. But overall I think the SW20 is faster.
Don't forget "Hyde"...
They are great cars, but available in relatively small numbers compared to the Miata. I think total production for north america was under 200k cars.
E-stock is the only place an SW20 is classed competitively.
I'm underwhelmed by the stock turbo, although the 3s is an excellent engine. It was to detuned for the US market. The JDM variants were the ticket.
Hard to find one not beat to hell, but they are tough cars.
White_and_Nerdy wrote:Around 10 years ago I was running my 90 Miata in ES. There was one guy, in an NA SW20, who would ALWAYS beat me, no matter how well I drove. One day, during fun runs, I took a ride with him in his car. And I understood why he always beat me. Not only was he an excellent driver, the car was simply more capable than my Miata. Turn-in response was quicker than any Miata will ever be, thanks to it having the engine in the back. It accelerated better. It turned better. I don't remember if it stopped better, but with 2 out of 3, the MR2 had the advantage in the hands of a skilled driver.
I'd still say the Miata is the easier car to drive fast. It's very forgiving, unlike a mid-engine car. But overall I think the SW20 is faster.
It stopped better. SW20s have somewhat insane braking for an affordable mass-production car. Even more so when you consider what the "norm" was at the time it was produced.
A few years ago a supercharged V6 SW20 won the SCCUCC or whatever the hell it was called. Won the braking challenge by a wide margin, and it just had upgrade pads, rotors, and lines.
Was that Jeff Fazios car? I thought his was big turbo and lotsa boost.
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/hyde/peter_doane_poconoA9.htm
fast_eddie_72 wrote: ... And if you want to build a "serious" E Stock SW20 you have to find a '93 hardtop, which is really difficult to find.
Per once took a t-top car and transplanted a hardtop roof.
jstein77 wrote:Per once took a t-top car and transplanted a hardtop roof.
I'm sure you could do it. Could take a '91 or '92 and change it to a '93 too. But you'd get a lot of scrutinity and almost certainly be protested if you won anything.
John Brown wrote:Was that Jeff Fazios car? I thought his was big turbo and lotsa boost.
http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/hyde/peter_doane_poconoA9.htm
Nah, this was yellow V6 supercharged, won SCC USCC in 2004.
This one.
I loved my SW20 N/A. I did the patented end swap a few times and the ex convinced me to sell it.
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I like the V6 swap idea. And those rims are easily worth 100 hp, right? 
lesabre400 wrote:In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
I like the V6 swap idea. And those rims are easily worth 100 hp, right?
Maybe, but i'm sure the supercharger was. 
I'm actually about to be in the market for an N/A version and I do eventually want to do a v6 swap to the car. I believe it is nearly a bolt in swap (I think you need one custom mount).The lift throttle oversteer does make it less predictable that the miata, but given the fact that the car will see more highways and backroads than serious autocross courses, I prefer the extra weight. It doesn't hurt that they are dead sexy IMO. It has a decent aftermarket as well, but (again) not quite as good as the miata. John Brown, I'm surprised you managed to spin an N/A that often. Racing or was it in street use?
sanman wrote: The lift throttle oversteer does make it less predictable that the miata, but given the fact that the car will see more highways and backroads than serious autocross courses, I prefer the extra weight.
When I started autocrossing in it, I spun a lot. Had one very scarry afternoon and nearly whacked a curb really hard. But putting the big front bar on it transforms the car. My '91 is a tic tight- just a tic- with the ST bar. I literally haven't had one spin since I put it on several years ago.
