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coil on plugs... it is a "cassette" that bolts to the top of the valve cover and it powers the plugs. Basically coil on plug, but in a long, heavy, and fragile componite that gets cooked by the engine over the age of the car.
Eventually all the cooling oil gets cooked out, the coils overheat and short.. and the car sputters to a halt. usually with no warning
once I get the sidesills/skirts.. my NG will look a LOT like that. I already got the bumpers.. the skirts are proving illusive
Hotlinked for your pleasure, just wondering when the one in the wifes car is going to go out.......
In reply to JtspellS:
I have one if you need a spare. I took it off the totaled SAAB. 
As far as the DI goes, I put a total of one on my 9-3 SE HO in 230,000 miles. If you keep the correct plugs gapped within specs you should really have no trouble. That was also on a car with a 3in DP and a 2.5in exhaust that saw the upper RPM rance quite often. 
By the way the Viggen pushes 20 lbs of boost stock, with room for more.
If you can find one that has been taken care of a Viggen would be a great DD. Quick, good mileage, comphy and really as long as you stay away from the dealer the cost of parts is not bad at all.
Put me in the Viggen over MS3 camp for now, I have not driven a MS3 as of yet.
itsatrap wrote:In reply to JtspellS:
I have one if you need a spare. I took it off the totaled SAAB.
Lol not yet (knocks on wood)
81gtv6 wrote:What turbo do the Viggens run anyway? I know the only real issue with the MS3's is its a KO4@15 stock and run out with bolt ons is roughly 20psi.As far as the DI goes, I put a total of one on my 9-3 SE HO in 230,000 miles. If you keep the correct plugs gapped within specs you should really have no trouble. That was also on a car with a 3in DP and a 2.5in exhaust that saw the upper RPM rance quite often.
If you can find one that has been taken care of a Viggen would be a great DD. Quick, good mileage, comphy and really as long as you stay away from the dealer the cost of parts is not bad at all.
Put me in the Viggen over MS3 camp for now, I have not driven a MS3 as of yet.
Oh, and remember to watch out for the stock Viggen wheels, they have a reputation of bending very easily...
JtspellS wrote: What turbo do the Viggens run anyway? I know the only real issue with the MS3's is its a KO4@15 stock and run out with bolt ons is roughly 20psi.
Mitsu TD04HL-15T-5cm2
Mo' info: http://www.ericsaabsite.com/Upgrades/Stage4/ViggenTurbo.html
the last "good" SAAB was spelled SPG......
go with the MS3 and be happy everytime you see someone broken on the side of the road in their SLAAB
From KBB:
2000 Saab Viggen Hatchback (4 door), 122,000 miles, Suggested Retail $7,050.
2007 Mazda Mazdaspeed 3 Grand Touring Hatchback (4 door), 44,500 miles, Suggested Retail $20,455.
Just sayin'
I think this REALLY all comes down to price and whether or not you do your own work.
The MS3 is a LOT more expensive than the SAAB.
If you dont do your own work, buy the MS3.
If you DO do your own work, either buy the Saab or build a NON-mazdaspeed 3. I just sold our 2004 mazda 3 for $4350. Im pretty sure i could have built that thing to be much faster than an MS3 for less than the price difference (cough UNDERSTATEMENT cough cough).
With the whole arguing on the internet thing in mind I will just add this little tidbit if info: (This is for 2007 vehicles by the way)
Granted JD Powers is not the end all be all but I think this tells some of the story. I have owned cars from the US, Europe and Japan and they all have thier good and bad points but the bad rap that SAAB seems to get just baffels me. I am on my 3rd one, all were gotten used with at least 70K miles on them and they have been no worse than any other car I have owned.
One of the best things about this place is that people have had personal experience with a wide variety of hardware but the knee jerk this or that is crap is getting old, to me at least.
Sorry for the rant.
I'll weigh in on this - I have test driven a couple of MS3s over the years, and owned an '01 Viggen for the last two years (sold recently - still pining!) Reason for sale was that with 3 cars, one had to go - it wasn't going to be the track miata, and the recently bought '00 Silverado that tows it occasionally has just proved too useful. So, bye Viggen. I sold it to a neighbor. He's very happy!
If you don't want to deviate from stock then the MS3 wins acceleration and handling easily. Adding go fast parts to the Viggen will probably get it up to stock MS3 capabilities, and for a lot less total $$s. Where the Viggen really shines (even stock) is as a deceptively quick, good looking, comfortable, (and utilitarian) executive car. People routinely thought it was worth twice what I paid, or more. And you do NOT see them coming & going - mine was a 5-door hatch and in two years in OKC I never saw another 5-door Viggen. I believe it was actually conceived as an M3 competitor, and would hold its own as far as acceleration with the E46 M3s but not the next gen, and was never on a par with handling.
However, it can be expensive to fix - especially at the dealer. Here the Saab dealership shares space with Cadillac and dealing with GRM folk is not their specialty - they want $60 to replace a headlight bulb. Over the years, I did almost all repair work myself but was also fortunate to find a local independent saab mechanic. I think this is pretty crucial to a good saab owning experience. Also, saabnet.com has good support, & parts are actually quite reasonable from eeuroparts.com and others. Most body parts are shared with basic 9-3s, many engine parts are shared with 9-5s. If you are reasonably mechanically minded and have a local guy too, I think you will be fine. Check the marque boards for common problems, just like you would for any other car purchase, and so some basic research.
I miss the Viggen, and am very glad I had the chance to own it. It was a torque monster, and always gave me a reason to smile when the turbo spooled up in 2nd gear (1st is electronically torque limited) and I surprised more than a few cars in the time I had it. Going forward, I'm not sure I would buy another mostly because I really like RWD, but the experience of owning it has made it difficult to imagine what will eventually replace it as none of us want to step back performance-wise.
Start throwing $30k at the problem and many solutions appear, but try to replicate the Viggen's capabilities for $10k or less . . . I think that is tough. Sure you can get the basic performance for that $$s, but try to also get (for instance) heated leather seats with memory, 30+ mpg highway, and auto climate control. Overall, the Viggen has a pretty unique blend of executive comfort, performance, panache, utility, & economy.
Just curious how it's fair to make price comparisons vs two cars that are 6-8 years apart?
Yay! Another car I want to try out. The Viggen that is.
Well i just thought of something, as the MS3 and the Viggen are 2 different but equal vehicles how about the GTI and the Viggen, they are closer in relation overall.
z31maniac wrote:Just curious how it's fair to make price comparisons vs two cars that are 6-8 years apart?
How is it not "fair?" The design of the experiment calls for the cars to be as similar as possible, but to allow price and MY to vary.
The cars are both factory-massaged, turbocharged, 4-cylinder, FWD, 5-door hatchbacks with gobs of "fun-tility." Is there another car of the Saab's vintage that fits this description? (And comes close to its performance?)
If I hold price relatively constant, and allow the cars to vary, I get 86 Alfa GTV6 91 BMW M5 97 BMW M3 00 Saab 9-3 Viggen
But that's for a different thread.
In reply to rogerbvonceg:
Nice list - the Saab's reliablility, or cost to repair, isn't really a factor in that group, is it?
When I was replacing my DD last winter (a '99 Protege), I lost many nights sleep over the MS3. I originally was going to get the Protege's successor, the "plain" Mazda 3. Drove both the '08 and a current generation '10. Loved them and almost made a deal on an '08, put a deposit on it then changed my mind. A local dealer had an '08 MS3. I was so tempted to buy it. Drove my wife nuts trying to rationalize it. But I had just heard and read too many horror stories about quality issues...namely turbo problems, strut problems and engines tossing their cookies. I have no doubt much of it can probably be attributed to mods and abuse, but it still concerned me. That, combined with Mazda being picky on warranties scared me away. Damn shame, as the MS3 is a really fun "hot hatch".
Wound up with an NC Miata....doesn't everyone.
rogerbvonceg wrote:z31maniac wrote:Just curious how it's fair to make price comparisons vs two cars that are 6-8 years apart?
How is it not "fair?" The design of the experiment calls for the cars to be as similar as possible, but to allow price and MY to vary.
The cars are both factory-massaged, turbocharged, 4-cylinder, FWD, 5-door hatchbacks with gobs of "fun-tility." Is there another car of the Saab's vintage that fits this description? (And comes close to its performance?)
If I hold price relatively constant, and allow the cars to vary, I get 86 Alfa GTV6 91 BMW M5 97 BMW M3 00 Saab 9-3 Viggen
But that's for a different thread.
Let me try to be more succinct.
It seems ridiculous to complain that a 2008 MY vehicle with lower miles is "expensive" compared to a 2000 MY vehicle with more miles.
The price difference between the two will pay for alot of "repairs", money is money.
facepalm
z31maniac wrote:rogerbvonceg wrote:z31maniac wrote:Just curious how it's fair to make price comparisons vs two cars that are 6-8 years apart?
How is it not "fair?" The design of the experiment calls for the cars to be as similar as possible, but to allow price and MY to vary.
The cars are both factory-massaged, turbocharged, 4-cylinder, FWD, 5-door hatchbacks with gobs of "fun-tility." Is there another car of the Saab's vintage that fits this description? (And comes close to its performance?)
If I hold price relatively constant, and allow the cars to vary, I get 86 Alfa GTV6 91 BMW M5 97 BMW M3 00 Saab 9-3 Viggen
But that's for a different thread.
Let me try to be more succinct.
It seems ridiculous to complain that a 2008 MY vehicle with lower miles is "expensive" compared to a 2000 MY vehicle with more miles.
I don't recall anyone complaining. I'm sure the MS3 is worth every penny of its fair market value. I was just thinking about the similarity of approach between the two cars, and yet how much easier the Saab would be to obtain. This is a "grassroots" board, so I thought it would an interesting discussion, which it has been, IMO.
The classic question is always newer-and-more-expensive-outlay vs older-and-potentially-more-expensive-down-the-road. GRM seems to be about finding the sweet spot between the two.
