92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/12/12 7:29 p.m.

Annnnndddddd GO!

Came across a Mallory HyFire 6A, which seems to be the same thing as an MSD 6A, and both of which (if you believe the internet) seem to be a copy of something Holley made.

Is this one of those things where you just get whichever is available? Or is there any compelling argument to get one over the other?

ThePhranc
ThePhranc Reader
1/12/12 7:31 p.m.

Name branding is the biggest difference along with price on comparable units. Just make sure they are comparable. Even with in MSD 6AL there are a few different models.

DrBoost
DrBoost SuperDork
1/12/12 9:03 p.m.

Mallory Keaton? I vote for her.

ThePhranc
ThePhranc Reader
1/12/12 9:14 p.m.
iadr wrote: None of those are very reliable. I think the MSD is hte worst. Crane make them, Pertronix, Accel, several others. They create waaay more problems than they solve. Name one single OE application of a CD multispark box. Think before you buy any of them...

What exactly are these problems? The only ones I've heard of are operator error of too much spark gap.

The "its not OE" argument doesn't really fly. Lots of aftermarket things that make a car better aren't installed as OE, most due to cost effectiveness.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/13/12 8:36 a.m.

Yeah, well... in this case, i'm replacing a factory ignition system that isn't exactly robust. Nor is mine complete.

I'm going to give it a shot for a few months before i go COPs.

44Dwarf
44Dwarf Dork
1/13/12 8:48 a.m.

Personally I'd never buy a used box but have gotten them on vehicles I've bought. My preference has always been MSD. Out of the 5 brand new boxes I've installed I've never had one problem EVER, even on my drag car. I do know others who have had nothing but bad luck at the same time. Why i don't know.
Most of my installs were with 100% custom wiring harnesses however my last install was with in a 96 F150 with 302 in that one i used the MSD adapter harness for a box i had sitting on the shelf I added the box to try an squeak a few more MPG's out of the truck while towing. It help about .4mpg not bad seeing it cost me $12 for the adapter harness (had box already).

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro Dork
1/13/12 8:53 a.m.

Igniton upgrades are the LEAST bang for the buck thing you can possibly do.

All those systems do is suck money from your wallet.

Put a stock system back in and you'll be fine.

Remember, this is electricity. The system will only use as much energy as needed to create the spark and no more.

Shawn

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/13/12 8:55 a.m.
Trans_Maro wrote: Igniton upgrades are the LEAST bang for the buck thing you can possibly do. All those systems do is suck money from your wallet. Put a stock system back in and you'll be fine. Remember, this is electricity. The system will only use as much energy as needed to create the spark and no more. Shawn

I don't have the stock system.

The stock system is known to fail.

The only thing stock about any of the motor in general is the bottom end.

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro Dork
1/13/12 7:34 p.m.

So, exactly what parts are missing and what stock system are you dealing with.

Maybe there is a simple fix that doesn't require an overpriced box.

You can fire a GM HEI module with just about any magnetic trigger and you can fire a Ford TFI module with pretty much anything else.

Shawn

tuna55
tuna55 SuperDork
1/13/12 9:02 p.m.

My Dad usually used MSD on the drag car. He's used them for a few decades. They go bad occasionally, maybe 5-10 years average lifespan? The last one that pissed him off caused a stutter in the car for about half a second during a run and lost him the race in the third round of a national event in Super Stock.

I'd say to call them. A buddy ran a coil (don't remember which brand) that only lasted for six months on an otherwise stock street driven mustang. I suspect they are like most companies who have a good, old, reliable line and a fancy/new/shiny/cheap line that's made in China by 6 year old girls. Richmond is this way with their gears and whatnot. Buy the right part number and you get a good, quality USA made piece. Buy the wrong one and it was from the lowest bidder in China. I know that firsthand from the plant manager there.

That being said, even thought he's being slightly un-helpful about it, Shawn does have a point, there are folks who can repurpose stock style stuff, GM HEI is one and also Ford DIS, but I only know that from V8 stuff. There are lots of options, but I would not blame you for going with a MDS box. Virtually every drag car in the world has one. They can't be that bad.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/13/12 11:12 p.m.
Trans_Maro wrote: So, exactly what parts are missing and what stock system are you dealing with. Maybe there is a simple fix that doesn't require an overpriced box. You can fire a GM HEI module with just about any magnetic trigger and you can fire a Ford TFI module with pretty much anything else. Shawn

All of it.

Mazda KL.

I do have a GM HEI module already that i was planning on using.

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro Dork
1/14/12 12:06 a.m.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick about it.

Aftermarket ignition is one of my pet peeves, it's really unnecessary to spend that much money for that little improvement.

Try this:

Use the distributors pickup to trigger the HEI module and fire a Ford E-core coil with the HEI module, the wiring is dead simple.

The HEI module gives you something like 50 degrees or better dwell to fully saturate the coil.

The Ford coils are some of the best stock units out there, good for well over 30,000 volts and I doubt you'll be running plug gaps higher than 0.060 so I'd bet it will be just fine.

If you're running really high compression numbers or really advanced static timing, use a 5-pin HEI module from a late 80's 305 powered Chevy truck with the ESC system. Take the extra pin on the module and hook a toggle switch to ground on it. When you close the switch and ground the pin, the module will retard timing by 10 degrees for easy starting.

If you're going with forced induction, I could see running an ignition box but the MSD system is a very dumb system. All it does is retard the timing a certain amount based on boost levels.

There are better aftermarket boxes out there that use a knock sensor to control timing retard based on knock signal.

Hope that is of some help.

A lot of the aftermarket parts hype is hoping that folks forget that manufacturers invest millions of dollars developing very reliable, versatile systems.

Shawn

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork
1/14/12 12:23 a.m.

I'm ignition dumb.... i'm going to have to spend a few hours tomorrow figuring out what you just said.

Stock distributor has the coil built into it.

I'm using Megasquirt V2.2. (With knock sensor)

Don't have a need for the MSD BTM, not a fan of that thing in the first place.

I'm looking at $100 for the box and coil. (Take-off from a Mazda KL) A new stock distributor costs over $300.

You've given me something to look into for sure, though. Just need to make myself understand.

This is the HEI i have:

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro Dork
1/14/12 12:53 a.m.

HEI module wiring as follows:

C = Coil (negative side)

B = Battery (positive side of the coil, or any appropriate power source that is live in ignition and start)

W = positive lead (+) from the pickup in the distributor

G = negative lead (-) from the pickup in the distributor

Hope that helps a bit.

Is the stock coil in the cap? If it is, you may be stuck using that one.

Also, make sure you have a GM Delco brand HEI module. The replacement made-in-china ones are awful in terms of reliablilty and dwell control.

Don't forget to mount the module on a piece of aluminum for a heat sink. Make sure to use heat sink compound (not dielectric grease like some will tell you) between the heatsink and the module.

Shawn

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair SuperDork
1/14/12 10:07 a.m.
Trans_Maro wrote: If you're running really high compression numbers or really advanced static timing, use a 5-pin HEI module from a late 80's 305 powered Chevy truck with the ESC system. Take the extra pin on the module and hook a toggle switch to ground on it. When you close the switch and ground the pin, the module will retard timing by 10 degrees for easy starting.

that is a wonderful piece of information right there. i've never heard this before, but i've got it filed away for future reference.

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 11:20 a.m.
AngryCorvair wrote:
Trans_Maro wrote: If you're running really high compression numbers or really advanced static timing, use a 5-pin HEI module from a late 80's 305 powered Chevy truck with the ESC system. Take the extra pin on the module and hook a toggle switch to ground on it. When you close the switch and ground the pin, the module will retard timing by 10 degrees for easy starting.

that is a wonderful piece of information right there. i've never heard this before, but i've got it filed away for future reference.

So does that mean I can change the resistance of ground for a variable timing change or is it discreet?

Trans_Maro
Trans_Maro Dork
1/14/12 2:07 p.m.
Ranger50 wrote:
AngryCorvair wrote:
Trans_Maro wrote: If you're running really high compression numbers or really advanced static timing, use a 5-pin HEI module from a late 80's 305 powered Chevy truck with the ESC system. Take the extra pin on the module and hook a toggle switch to ground on it. When you close the switch and ground the pin, the module will retard timing by 10 degrees for easy starting.

that is a wonderful piece of information right there. i've never heard this before, but i've got it filed away for future reference.

So does that mean I can change the resistance of ground for a variable timing change or is it discreet?

It seems that the factory pulsed the ground signal to the pin. It's not a variable thing, it's on or off.

Shawn

Ranger50
Ranger50 Dork
1/14/12 2:33 p.m.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

So, it is discreet. Figures.

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