Jerry HalfDork
Aug. 11, 2013 7:02 a.m.

I was gifted some semi-worn gravel tires at the end of last year, and just in time for the last event. Seemed like they made a difference from snow tires & thoroughly enjoy them the last 3 events.

I've come to learn there are mud tires, and would like to acquire a set. Yesterday would have been very handy to have mud tires, in the fairly soft mud. Any ideas where I could find a set cheap? Or even not-so cheap? I've seen a few threads offering gravel tires lately but no muds.

(Of course with the MR2 I have to decide before I leave the house which one's will be best. I can barely carry 4 wheels, I do not think 8 is in the cards.)

Hntsvl_E30 New Reader
Aug. 11, 2013 9:30 a.m.

Nobody that our Rallycrossers can find, will import any rally tires/tyres. The only option we can find is to buy them from the U.K., and have them shipped. The MaxSport grass tires would be so great. Dmack USA is the only other option in the US, but they are out of everything for the rest of the season.

Tom Suddard Event Marketing
Aug. 11, 2013 9:42 a.m.

What about BFG mud terrains?

HiTempguy UltraDork
Aug. 11, 2013 10:13 a.m.

Yokohama ao31's. They are da bes. They also are expensive. And I don't know if any dealers in US have them.

irish44j UberDork
Aug. 11, 2013 10:26 a.m.

Get a tire groover/siper (you can get basic ones for $50 online) and go every other block off (depending on your tread pattern) and sipe the blocks. That'll give you about as close as you can get to a true mud tire without having to search the world for them.

Also, there's an extensive rally tire thread on dirtyimpreza.com. I would check it out there.

Hntsvl_E30 New Reader
Aug. 11, 2013 10:52 a.m.

I groove my own tires with the low-end groover. I use an aggressive, cheap, all-season tire, and open up the blocks. They work great dry in the loose stuff, but not so great in mud. The winterforce tire is better, but they feel so loose and unstable most of the time, I can't stand them.

Knurled UberDork
Aug. 11, 2013 11:02 a.m.

I had a bad experience cutting blocks out. The remaining ones wore phenomenally fast. I turned a set of half-decent rally tires to nubs in one event that way. They were so bad that I threw them out!

The problem with mud and RWD is that the front tires pack up and then you have slicks in the front, no matter what tires you've got. Super-awesome tires gives you great ability to accelerate and then you find that you can't slow down or turn.

Travis_K UltraDork
Aug. 11, 2013 2:47 p.m.
Tom Suddard wrote: What about BFG mud terrains?

I dont think they make any small enough to fit an MR2, otherwise that would work.

Kenny_McCormic SuperDork
Aug. 11, 2013 3:35 p.m.

Can you clear 26 inches? http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=All-Terrain+T%2FA+KO&partnum=975R4ARAKORWL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

clownkiller Reader
Aug. 11, 2013 3:54 p.m.

16vCorey, did this on his derby car. Might work for rallycross!?!?

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/entering-!a-demolition-derbyneed-some-advice/39447/page2/

Jerry HalfDork
Aug. 11, 2013 3:58 p.m.

In reply to Travis_K:

Small wheels. I had issues trying to get tall 14" snow tires to work, they scraped the bottom of the shock towers in front. Rear was fine. I have 15" low profile street wheels, and 14" rally tires that I forget the name, just got back from a car show and still dehydrated.

cghstang HalfDork
Aug. 11, 2013 4:09 p.m.

Jerry,

You can come over some time and use my groover to make the tires you have better. I was going to tell you this before I saw this thread.

I can show you my mud/snow rally tires too (that maybe you've seen before).

Like Pete said, the fronts are always going to be more of a challenge. The biggest help in the mud, as in any surface conditions, is tuning up the nut behind the wheel.

wae Reader
Aug. 11, 2013 7:54 p.m.
clownkiller wrote: 16vCorey, did this on his derby car. Might work for rallycross!?!?

I'm fairly certain that motorcycle tires are disallowed -- I know ATV tires are.

I've looked in a lot of places and haven't had much luck finding a large blocky tread in a 14" tire. There's one BFG T/A KO (I think it is) that comes in a fairly wide 14", and that might be able to be cut into a mud block pattern. The only other thing that I could think to try would be to upsize to a 15" and look for some Jeep tires.

The problem that I think the mud cut patterns have on gravel rally tires is that the tread block isn't that deep and the compounds tend to be a bit softer. So the blocks don't grab as well, they get clogged up, and once it starts to dry off, the extra pressure on the blocks just tears them up and smooths it out.

irish44j UberDork
Aug. 11, 2013 8:46 p.m.
Knurled wrote: I had a bad experience cutting blocks out. The remaining ones wore phenomenally fast. I turned a set of half-decent rally tires to nubs in one event that way. They were so bad that I threw them out! The problem with mud and RWD is that the front tires pack up and then you have slicks in the front, no matter what tires you've got. Super-awesome tires gives you great ability to accelerate and then you find that you can't slow down or turn.

I'll second this since I grooved one of my sets. If you don't chamfer the tread blocks well (which is a MAJOR pain), they wear very fast. But if you're only using them in MUD conditions, they probably won't wear very fast. Just don't use them on dry/gravel days.

I now have two sets: One cut for mud/soft conditions and one that is uncut that I use in all other conditions/surfaces.

Jerry HalfDork
Aug. 12, 2013 6:43 a.m.
irish44j wrote: But if you're only using them in MUD conditions, they probably won't wear very fast. Just don't use them on dry/gravel days.

Well hell. I can't guarantee that will happen since I have to choose before I leave the house. Thought about buying that set that was posted earlier on the white rims but they sold already. Guess for now I'll just keep tuning that nut behind the wheel and hope for the best!

wae Reader
Aug. 12, 2013 7:42 a.m.
Jerry wrote:
irish44j wrote: But if you're only using them in MUD conditions, they probably won't wear very fast. Just don't use them on dry/gravel days.

Well hell. I can't guarantee that will happen since I have to choose before I leave the house.

That's a good point, actually. This weekend was unusual for me, in that I kept the muds on for the afternoon session. Usually I'll only wind up running the muds if I'm in the first run group and then switch back to gravel during lunch. Unless it's been really wet or it's actively raining, the first run group is typically enough to dig down into the drier dirt and start packing it down.

Perhaps a harbor freight tire trailer is in your future?

EvanB PowerDork
Aug. 12, 2013 7:42 a.m.

FWIW I usually prefer the gravel tires even in muddy conditions. I have never felt that the big mud tires helped much.

Maybe if we were able to run them in the front as well I could tell the difference.

EvanB PowerDork
Aug. 12, 2013 7:44 a.m.
wae wrote: Perhaps a harbor freight tire trailer is in your future?

At the last OVR event someone was asking me what price he should ask for his tire trailer set up like mine. I forget who it was but he said he wanted to sell it.

wae Reader
Aug. 12, 2013 8:58 a.m.
EvanB wrote: FWIW I usually prefer the gravel tires even in muddy conditions. I have never felt that the big mud tires helped much. Maybe if we were able to run them in the front as well I could tell the difference.

I realize it's apples and oranges, but I find a huge difference with having them on the front only with FWD.

Jerry HalfDork
Aug. 12, 2013 9:20 a.m.
EvanB wrote:
wae wrote: Perhaps a harbor freight tire trailer is in your future?

At the last OVR event someone was asking me what price he should ask for his tire trailer set up like mine. I forget who it was but he said he wanted to sell it.

I really thought I would have one already but when I figured out how to load everything into the MR2 Tetris-style I lost interest. It would be pretty handy though and more organized than it is now. Maybe I should post something to OVR's Facebook page and see if he's listening.

cghstang HalfDork
Aug. 12, 2013 9:29 a.m.
wae wrote:
EvanB wrote: FWIW I usually prefer the gravel tires even in muddy conditions. I have never felt that the big mud tires helped much. Maybe if we were able to run them in the front as well I could tell the difference.

I realize it's apples and oranges, but I find a huge difference with having them on the front only with FWD.

I ran the same big mud tires on the front of my ZX-2 that we've run on the rear of the Miata.

I'll agree with both of you.

They haven't helped as much as I thought they would on the Miata and they were amazing on the front of the Escort. We probably would need to try really low pressures on the rear of the Miata and get some kind of magical front tire that would stay clear of mud and allow turning and stopping in slime.

wae Reader
Aug. 12, 2013 9:31 a.m.
cghstang wrote: We probably would need to try really low pressures on the rear of the Miata and get some kind of magical front tire that would stay clear of mud and allow turning and stopping in slime.

I believe that what you describe are called "skis". :)

EvanB PowerDork
Aug. 12, 2013 10:35 a.m.
wae wrote:
cghstang wrote: We probably would need to try really low pressures on the rear of the Miata and get some kind of magical front tire that would stay clear of mud and allow turning and stopping in slime.

I believe that what you describe are called "skis". :)

cghstang HalfDork
Aug. 12, 2013 11:02 a.m.

So how do you turn or stop with the front wheels in the air?

Jerry HalfDork
Aug. 12, 2013 11:10 a.m.

In reply to cghstang:

Well you did say they would be "magical".

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