MY how things can change...

i doubt any of you will remember me, but my name is Jon. i rode up to G-ville with a few friends and fully enjoyed GRM08. the impression i got from the people, staff, and program was lasting. i had originally intended to build a small roadster with a 2.3Tford in it. i know the engine, and im well versed in making it go.

however... this past winter has been interesting. i have taken my 87 T-bird turbo to new heights with a very large ball bearing turbo, and some much needed fuel upgrades (think 11's in 3400 lb ford). what i have since realized, is the 2.3T is a pricey motor. simply put, $2010 just isnt gonna do the job. not right anyways. so ive changed cars, motors, and tactics.

with fuel prices where they were, $4 a gallon seemed like a good reason to buy a small honda civic, for daily driver use. so, i picked up a 86 civic Si from a guy for $500. he put a TON of new parts in this car, ignition, fuel, tires, seals, tons of stuff. then it died on him, and he couldnt fix it. he sold it to me for what he had in it in new parts, which was a hair under $500. it even came with a DCSports header and muffler, three manuals, a bunch of spare parts (think laundry basket of random stuff). well, it turns out, the Fuel pressure regulator was stuck shut, and a few raps on it with a hammer, and the car runs PERFECT. idles nice, drives straight, everything. ran it up to 115MPH on the freeway no problem, with more in it.

so, now im thinking, this might be the $2010 car. theres enough good OEM stuff on that i can sell to enthusiasts to get back the $500, and i can start from $0 and go wild. the body is PERFECT, the paint is SHOT, and the interior is mediocre. ill bet i can make it look decent, handle well, and run solid. competitive? likely not. but certainly a top 20 car. im really only interested in having some fun, seeing how it all works first hand, and getting involved.

so, there it is. my entrant into the 2010 GRM challenge (assuming this is still going on in G-ville and the rules didnt change) is a 1986 Honda Civic Si 1.5L FI.

id really appreciate some direction in how to keep records on cost, and a link to the official rules. id also like to know dates, times, locations and stuff like that. ill browse the site some more and see what i can dig up. i havent been here in 8+ months...sorry...

-J0N

Hey Jon, I remember talking to you (or, someone named Jon who was planning to bring a 2.3 ). Welcome to the mayhem. Rules are on the Challenge page. Sorry to hear you won't be participating in the $2009 event, but $2010 will a hoot too.

Jon!! Hey remember man, there's a "West Coast" Challenge in San Diego in August.

yeah, $2009 is too close. i have two jobs for awhile, and some other business propositions that get in the way. i dont know about the san diego event, my understanding is that the rules are different, and the drag is 1/8th. i dont really do 1/8th. especially in a FWD car where that last 1000ft is where i get traction. but ill consider it. mostly though, i doubt ill have the car ready in three months, too much going on right now.

thanks guys!

-J0N

2009 is too close if you want to win. But if you want a better idea on how it's done, the experince is MORE than worth it. Put together a $1000 package, and have fun.

BTW, if you want to win something, anything. Keep your budget to <$1200, and buy a brand spanking new set of hoosier Rs. Then you can at least win the autocross.

Especially if you live next to G-Ville. You have to enter. You barely have anything to outlay, except entry. Wheras the rest of us have travel + hotels to risk, too.

E-

competitive? likely not.

Don't sell yourself short!!! Keep in mind, the 3G civic is generally held as an even better platform than the 1G CRX for auto-x!

The D16A1 swap is relatively simple. There's a great old SCC article on redpepperracing.com outlining the minimal weird stuff. Slap on a turbo and GO! You're already one step ahead with a FI car. CHEAP 1g integras pop up pretty often. The one I'm using for a swap right now was $300 DELIVERED from an insurance auction.

Add lightness. You can get the car under 1500lbs. in a weekend. PM me if you want tips.

"Brand spanking new" R-comps are great, but will eat up 30% of your budget. Slightly used are comps are even better. The auto-x this year was won on 4-5 year old A3S05's that started to cord at the next auto-x after the challenge. A big contact patch and a wide track are your friends. We've run used Diamond wheels for every event. They're a little heavy, but they're cheap, and 13 X 8 - 13 X 9 is a common size for EP R-comp throwaways before nationals. Also found these guys a few months ago. Can't beat a brand spankin' new 13 X 10 wheel for 30 bucks!

http://www.aeroracewheels.com/default2.asp?active_page_id=203

Cheap, used drag slicks come up ALL the time on Craigslist around here. Figure $50-$100 for a pair that's got PLENTY of life left in 'em. Throw them on the stock wheels and GO!

As Koni and Tokico have both stopped making struts for our cars, they're getting harder to find, and people are charging a premium for them. BUT - keep your eyes out. There was a near-new set of konis linked in the $2009 classifieds at the end of last year that went for $100! Worst case, dig through sets of Rancho truck shocks. I know Jinx Jordan has run these on his cars before, and we've used them on some of our stuff as well. Cut springs work fine for the rear, and keep in mind, you can make damned near anything fit.

The torsion bars, again, are getting a little trickier to find, but Upgrade Motoring and a couple others are still making them. Worst case, just run the stock fronts, but try to find a decent set of struts with stiffer-than-stock compression damping.

If you decide not to do a swap, Nitrous is a cheap, effective way to get into the low 14's/high 13's on the stock motor. Believe it or not, the EW motors are pretty resilient. The old A-hole CRX has held together with probably 40-60 nitrous runs on an otherwise bone-freaking-stock 180,000 mile EW. Crushing the stock regulator with a hammer and socket will yield higher fuel pressures (no, I'm not joking.) Also, these motors (in my experience) take a TON of advance before going anywhere near lean. I've notched the bracket before to get more advance.

Some folks on redpepper will swear up and down that it doesn't provide any more power, but the Integra ECU and injectors are also direct swaps, and we've seen the results on the dyno. Don't do one without the other.

Let the Hongs know if we can help. We're willing to share!

wow. all good info. thanks man.

first off, im not doing a motor swap. im in this for the fun, so actual results dont interest me much. the 1.5 i have has great compression, good oil pressure, and runs fine. it stays. i do intend to deck the head for compression, and advance the timing. im also interested in the integra CPU and injectors. sounds like a plan, as i can get them cheap.

tires are up in the air, but im thinking some nitto 555's will do just fine. i found some really light wheels in a 14 that should do the job as well.

ill take you up on the weight tips. that could be good info. already, the intake stuff is gone, the rear seat is gone, the stock seats have been replaced with lighter ek seats, and the rear plastics, shield and carpet are gone. (it was all sold in very good condition to another 86 Si owner).

ill look for drag slicks used for sure, and the stock wheels are rusted, almost through, so i may just buy 6 of those really light wheels i found.

for suspension, this is where i wanted to get wild. i was thinking of chucking the whole shebang up front, and running a custom A-arm/coil over setup from a later FWD car. i figured id do some junk yarding with a tape measure and see what i can find. i am a skilled welder/fabricator, and i could probably set this all up fairly cheap. homemade sway bars or modified J/Y ones, stiff bushings, adjustable shocks, cut stiff springs, all sourced from various cars an the yards.

each car at the event seems to have a oddity about it. either is AWD and it didnt use to be, the motor is in the back, and it shouldnt be, stuff like that. my oddity will be a 4 wheel independent suspension in an I-beam/torsen bar car...

and, as a bonus, the weight of the stock front suspension is pretty substantial, and making it a bit lighter could be good news.

well see what happens. i may just paint it in motul liveries and drive it out there bone stock...

-J0N

p.s.-i live in central phoenix, so i have to drive/sleep in my car too.

AND WHERE IS THE "CHALLENGE PAGE"???

-turbo

IT'S RIGHT HERE!!!

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/events/2009-challenge/

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: tires are up in the air, but im thinking some nitto 555's will do just fine. i found some really light wheels in a 14 that should do the job as well.

No, they won't. If you've never driven R compound tires, you have no real idea of the performance benefit of them. Tires are the KEY to the autocross.

E-

jm - you have a pm.

alfadriver wrote:

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: tires are up in the air, but im thinking some nitto 555's will do just fine. i found some really light wheels in a 14 that should do the job as well.

No, they won't. If you've never driven R compound tires, you have no real idea of the performance benefit of them. Tires are the KEY to the autocross. E-

im not sure im as serious about this as you...i just want to play the game...

heres a newb question, where/how do i check my PMs....?

-J0N( <---MORON)

email

oh...ok...duh. thks.

-J0N

warning-newb question #2. i see the event stats and such, where do i find the official car build rules? what counts, what doesnt, safety minimums, crap like that?

found it, never mind....

-J0N

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

jmthunderbirdturbo wrote: tires are up in the air, but im thinking some nitto 555's will do just fine. i found some really light wheels in a 14 that should do the job as well.

No, they won't. If you've never driven R compound tires, you have no real idea of the performance benefit of them. Tires are the KEY to the autocross. E-

im not sure im as serious about this as you...i just want to play the game... heres a newb question, where/how do i check my PMs....? -J0N( <---MORON)

Now I'm confused- you say that there's not enough time for 2009, which is in October, but then say that you are not as serious. You CAN do 2009, and still get R tires (which I think are more fun anyway).

And you are not a moron- (although, admition is the first step in treatment). Wait, I take that back- you bought a challege car- you are a moron...

Seriously, having the car and actually willing to do it is a lot farther than most people even on this board. So that's a very, very good thing.

Eric

$2009 is too close because im working so much. getting the car ready isnt the issue, work schedule is. and it isnt that i dont want R-tires, its just that im not gonna spend a grand for fricking tires. this is first and foremost, a tiny, fast, well handling, fun DD. GRM10 is a bonus. ill get em if i can find em cheap...

right now, im contemplating the coolest paint scheme ever...

QUESTION: where it says "transportation costs are included", does that mean when i buy it, or when i drag its @$$ to the race 1900 miles away?

QUESTION:if i buy new tools, whether special for the car or not, does that count?

-J0N

Transport costs for getting the car to your house, YES.

To the GRM2009/2010, NO.

Just a reminder that San Diego is a lot closer to you then Gainesville, and is in August. You can get there easier, and less time means easier to schedule

http://sdgrandchallenge.com/

QUESTION:if i buy new tools, whether special for the car or not, does that count?

Not on the car. Not in the budget. (Though this doesn't ring true when it comes to transportation cost.)

Hate to sound like a broken record, but start going to autocrosses, and cruising your local region's classifieds. People ditch tires with 20 runs left in them all the time, often FO' FREE. Lucky for you, you only need enough tire for 5.

Now I get it.

I'm the moron here, I thought you lived NEAR G-Ville. Not farther than me.

Got it.

Have fun with the build.

E

alfadriver wrote: Now I get it. I'm the moron here, I thought you lived NEAR G-Ville. Not farther than me. Got it. Have fun with the build. E

+1. For some odd reason, I had that in my head too.

well, im burning up the last of my vacation on Carlisle all ford nationals. and i dont really like the prospect of the 1/8th...sorry.

i got the water leak fixed FREE, fixed the thermostat FREE, got the CE light to go away FREE, fixed the idle issues FREE, fixed the rattling valves for FREE, and mocked up a cold air intake for $4.

sold the interior, front bumper, and intake air box stuff for about $200.

so im about $304...sweet!

-poopshovel, alfa, yeah, i USED to live in cocoa, FL, but im now in north phoenix, AZ.

ill look for tires as time permits. hopefully i can find what i need. im going to order the wheels (13X10 in black) next week. ill get 6. (4 with slicks, 2 with drag tires)

-J0N

ill look for tires as time permits. hopefully i can find what i need. im going to order the wheels (13X10 in black) next week. ill get 6. (4 with slicks, 2 with drag tires)

Oh sweet! Are you going with the aeros? Let me know how they work out, and double check me on the "4 on 4" thing before you buy!!!

IMHO, 13 X 10 for the drags is going to be way wide and a little short for the drags, especially considering the limited HP, and used tires might be a pain in the arse to find. You can cram a lot more tire than you might think on a 15 X 7 steelie, and save some dough in the process. Just food for thought.

yeah, the 31 series in black. it measures CLOSE to 4x4, but its actually (according to honda) 4X100mm. according to the site, 4x4 will work if im not using 5/8 studs, which im not. maybe?

true on the drag tires, let me ask you this, then: will the R-5's hook at all in a drag setting? i mean, the auto X will be over...i wont need em back...

-J0N

true on the drag tires, let me ask you this, then: will the R-5's hook at all in a drag setting? i mean, the auto X will be over...i wont need em back...

Maybe marginally better than street tires, but keep in mind, they'll be really short, and have a really stiff sidewall FTL :(

Slicks in your area for $50-$100 - granted, most are monster RWD tires, but FWD stuff does pop up pretty often:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/search/pts?query=slicks&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max

ok, well it seems like i got a plan then. ill go ahead and get started...

thanks for all the info, im sure well talk again...

-J0N