NASCAR at Indy (tires!)

Just got home from work and watching the race. I tend to watch all the races just because I love racing. The crappy Goodyears these guys are running aren't even lasting 10 laps until they blow or starting showing the cords. Nascar is attempting to run competition yellows like every 9 laps or so to get some more laps out of the tires.

I think this is another side effect from NASCAR only allowing one tire manf. to be used and minimal development of the cars/tires. Even my dad who is pretty old school, isn't super interested in road racing and other stuff besides drag racing said that they either need to move on or go back to the old ways.

I recall Indy being hard on F1 tires in 2005 even when there were 2 tire manufacturers. Indy is mostly concrete, which tends to wear tires pretty quickly.

Nascar has been having this problem for a few years now. Maybe it's time they made the cars lighter, but restricted the horsepower a bit.

how long do they usually last?

longer than 10 laps...Tires at Le Mans last around will last longer than 10 laps lol. When they run the "restrictor" plates the cars only pump out around 450hp which means the Z06 pace car has more HP and weighs less lol.

Notice how empty the stands are!!!!

According to Chad Knauss, the new cars dont generate as much right side downforce, thus prohibiting laying a rubber groove on the track. This groove acts as a buffer, reducing tire wear.

maroon92 wrote: I recall Indy being hard on F1 tires in 2005 even when there were 2 tire manufacturers. Indy is mostly concrete, which tends to wear tires pretty quickly.

Indy is concrete? On what what planet in what solar system?

BTW, the F1 debacle blame lies at the Michelin doorstep. They gambled on a compound that couldn't withstand the sustained lateral G-loads coming out from the infield.

Michelin lost that bid by trying to deflect blame to the FIA (and I can't believe I'm actually defending the FIA) and insisting the rules be changed because of Michelin's screw-up. Justifiably, the FIA said -"NO".

It was, however, another reason to avoid tire manufacturers with huge advertising budgets. I prefer to purchase tires that perform on the street/track, not in advertising.

Ironically enough, Michelin's do perform, just not in F1. That same year in the WRC Michelin tires were the only ones that weren't tearing themselves apart on gravel rallies like the Pirellis were.

Monkeywrench wrote: Nascar has been having this problem for a few years now. Maybe it's time they made the cars lighter, but restricted the horsepower a bit.

OMG Isn't this racing? No Tony's correct NASCAR is the WWE of "racing"

Goodyear runs the show and they BLEW IT at Indy! They knew the tires were crap in April and did nothing to improve them.

They control the points by who gets what tires, when.

NASCAR needs to open up the tires.

I'm sure if allowed, there would be 3-4 suppliers by next year. COT or whatever

IIRC, the last time NASCAR tried two tire manfacturers (Goodyear and Hoosier) it ended up in a real fiasco. They got into a real "tire war" to see who could make the faster tire.

I am sure that everyone on this forum knows that speed(grip) and durability are polar opposites when it comes to tires. By the end of the season every race was similar to this past one (blown tires and wercked cars all over the place).

I think Goodyear and Nascar should share the blame. Goodyear for bringing an untested tire and NASCAR for not setting up some testing.

Goodyear does not control who gets what tires. They basically have a big truck mounting tires for everyone all weekend long. You take your wheels down there, either wait for them to be mounted or come back and pick them up. They simply start at the back of the trucks and work to the front until they're gone. You do not get new tires delivered to your shop to mount yourself, Nascar controls that. We had problems getting tires for testing on occasion.

The problem with Indy is they grind their track to make it smooth, and in doing so, it wears tires more quickly. I've long had a problem with Goodyear, as they seem to miss the boat more than they hit the target. Of course the new car also wears tires differently, and they didn't have a lot of data to fall back on, but you think with the test, they would have went with a conservative tire choice.

The problem as I see it is that the new car is incredibly sensitive to tires, and if you miss it by a fraction, it performs badly. So what's the answer, start over on a new car design or take your lumps until its properly developed?

Michelin is totally to blame for the F1 fiasco. They gambled on a compound and it didn't pay off. Bridgestone brought a working tire, they could have too, Of course this was in the middle of a tire war, so gambling is part of the process. At least they stood up afterwards and accepted the blame.

Goodyear does not control who gets what tires.

And the tooth fairy will visit later

Try and buy a set!

No amount of $$$$$ will get you one.

We used to race in Nascar, I know how tires are distributed, and they are NOT earmarked per team. It's first come, first served at the trailer.

I stand corrected, NASCAR does not regulate tire distribution. But in the Cup series, Goodyear does!

SoloSonett wrote: I stand corrected, NASCAR does not regulate tire distribution. But in the Cup series, Goodyear does!

Goodyear does not regulate tire distribution, what you get is what you get. It is true they will not sell you tires to take with you, but they are not earmarked for certain teams. They do NOT make "special" tires to help certain teams do better. The reason you are not allowed to buy all the tires you want is that Nascar limits the number of test days you are allowed to run to help keep costs down. Of course you can keep your old worn out tires, but they're only good for pushing the car around the shop.

During approved test days the Goodyear boys will be there to supply your needs. You are free to purchase tires from other competitiors if you wish to increase that, but Goodyear will not supply you tires according to their agreement with Nascar as the sole supplier. This might also affect your contingency money from Goodyear.

There are a couple of other manufacturers that do build a suitable tire, but of course they don't drive like the ones you'll be using, so your data might not be relevant.

Lastly, tires from one track to the next are very, very different. If you kept your unused tires from Bristol, and wanted to use them at the next race, they might be totally unsuitable, and even unsafe. Some tracks require different inner liners as well.

While I can tell you story after story about how Nascar affects the outcome of races, tires do not factor into the equation. In no way does Goodyear play favorites, and with the safety of everyone at stake, Nascar does not uses tires as a way to do so. They have other, more effective means.

racerdave600 wrote: While I can tell you story after story about how Nascar affects the outcome of races, tires do not factor into the equation. In no way does Goodyear play favorites, and with the safety of everyone at stake, Nascar does not uses tires as a way to do so. They have other, more effective means.

Spill it!!! I want to hear the stories from an insider!!!

^ You could possibly start with Nascar's "rulebook" - unpublished and interpreted as Nascar sees fit?

Phantom "debris cautions"?

Fines and penalties for "actions detrimental to the (sport)"?

"Randomly" confiscating cars for between-race inspections?

What can you add, Dave?

I will re-quote someone brighter than I " If I wish to watch brightly colored, identically shaped objects, go in circles all day; I will flush Skittles down the toilet! "

I still have rubber chunks in my hair from those tires..... never seen anything like it.

oldsaw wrote: ^ You could possibly start with Nascar's "rulebook" - unpublished and interpreted as Nascar sees fit? Phantom "debris cautions"? Fines and penalties for "actions detrimental to the (sport)"? "Randomly" confiscating cars for between-race inspections? What can you add, Dave?

They actually do have a rule book, it's only about 10 paragraphs long it seems, and worded for interpetation in some areas. I remember inspectors would come by and say "you need to add a gusset here before I can let you out on track", only to be told by the same inspector that we can't go out on track with the same gusset. Another time they kept telling us our track was out by half an inch, and we'd measure and adjust, they kept telling us the same thing. When the crew chief finally demanded to see them measure the car, we were told we were clear to go. By this time though, practice was about over.

OK, just a few of the things I witnessed:

Easiest, restrictor plates. They hand them out, and they are labeled as to which one goes to which cars. These are NOT random in any way, and it is clear that some cars can pass at will at a restrictor plate track.

I've spotted a few times, and have been told by officials to move over and let someone through even though we were quicker. If we didn't comply, we would be black flagged for a stop and go.

"Certain" teams were told if they did something to their cars, they would not be torn down in impound, or the item in particular not checked. One team I know of was never torn down all season. They won a bunch of races too.

I've seen certain teams much more strictly enforced on templates than others, some didn't look like they fit at all and were ushered through that part of checking.

Strange as it seems, everyone knows that this type of thing is part of the process, they take it in stride. Most figure that when their time comes, they will be given the same advantages.

Nascar is not and probably never will be a level playing field, which is unfortunate because it's much harder physically than doing a road race, on driver and crews. There's so much that goes on during a weekend that going back to road racing was like a vacation. Those guys work extrememly hard and its a shame to see how they are manipulated. But the show comes first there, and they know what their audience likes to see, and they try to give it to them.

Those guys work extrememly hard and its a shame to see how they are manipulated. But the show comes first there, and they know what their audience likes to see, and they try to give it to them.

The WWE of Racing!

Those guys work extrememly hard and its a shame to see how they are manipulated. But the show comes first there, and they know what their audience likes to see, and they try to give it to them.

The WWE of Racing!

said:Nascar is not and probably never will be a level playing field, which is unfortunate because it's much harder physically than doing a road race, on driver and crews. There's so much that goes on during a weekend that going back to road racing was like a vacation. Those guys work extrememly hard and its a shame to see how they are manipulated. But the show comes first there, and they know what their audience likes to see, and they try to give it to them.

Man made fate. So should we still consider it racing? Rigged events takes the fun out of cheering for your favorites.