Need some direction with turbo DSM (1st gen Eclipse): Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

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Jan. 26, 2009 9:53 a.m. Stuc HalfDork

Anyone have experience with these? My friend got a good deal on one... well, it would have been if the body wasn't irrepairable and the wiring wasn't hacked up... but anyway, I am going to help him fix it up but I don't really know where to start with these cars.

It's a fwd with the 2.0 turbo... 4g63, right? The seller said it wasn't turbo originally (from trim level and VIN), so it either had the engine swapped in or the turbo stuff swapped over. It definitely needs work. The turbo itself has play so we were thinking of changing that out and possibly upgrading it. What stock turbo does it have? Are there better/larger turbos that bolt up?

Then suspension. The rear struts/shocks don't seem to do anything.. it just sorta bounces. It seems KYB AGX and KYB GR-2s are pretty cheap for them, what are the advantages of each?

Lastly, springs etc. I've heard with the civics the eBay $20 coilovers are actually okay if you replace the springs. They make those for this car too, same story? Thanks for any input guys

ps: What's the best forum for these?
Jan. 26, 2009 9:56 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

The one thing i'll say for right now is...

You better hope the whole motor was swapped. The n/a 4g63 doesn't like boost too much.
Jan. 26, 2009 10:20 a.m. Armitage Reader

Can't really tell what turbo was stock because as you said, it wasn't a stock turbo. But for the most part, 1st gen 5-speed DSMs came with a TDO5h-14b turbo and 450cc injectors. The automatics came with a smaller TDO4h-13g turbo. If the whole motor was swapped and it came from an importer, it might possibly have a small or large 16g turbo. Does it have a Cyclone intake manifold?

A common step up is the 16g turbo. There are many flavors, but the ones that bolt right up are the small, large, and Evo3 flavors. At about $500 new, the Evo3 is a terrific upgrade and will get you close to the 400bhp mark with proper supporting mods. Beware of cheap chinese knockoffs and get a real MHI turbo from a reputable vendor though.

AGX adjustable, GR2 are not. AGXes hate to be used with lowering springs, it significantly reduces their lifespan. They also don't last very long when RallyX'd :(

I don't know much about eBay coilovers, but you can pick up a set of real ground controls w/Eibach springs for $200 used if you look around. At least, that's what I sold my set for a while back. If you're feeling up for the challenge, a popular suspension option with the GVR4 folks is to source a set of used Evo8/9 OEM suspension and modify it to fit. Geometry wise they're perfect. Mounting wise, they require a bit of welding but it's pretty straightforward and I'm loving mine. $75 for all 4 corners from a local sale.

Where are you located? Most areas have a local DSM club. Check out dsmtuners.com, they're a pretty big national forum with a big classified section. A lot of good technical information at galantvr4.org as well. A lot of experienced members in newengdsm.org.
Jan. 26, 2009 11:23 a.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

Maybe this will help some, too: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/diamond-stars/
Jan. 26, 2009 6:32 p.m. Stuc HalfDork

Great info! Right now we're trying to figure out exactly what we have...

How can we tell if it is a turbo 4g63 or a n/a? I think there is a good chance that it is the turbo motor because the car actually came with the 1.8.
Jan. 26, 2009 6:48 p.m. Rumnhammer New Reader

Man, I'd run away from something like that! Most of the 1st gen DSM's have been modded by this point and the mods are usually of a hack nature. Most have had the wiring messed with, among other things. And this is the ones that came with the turbo motor from the get go.

From the sound of this car I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole.

Chris
Jan. 26, 2009 6:53 p.m. Stuc HalfDork

Okay, well we already have it so the touching of it is inevitable.

That, and it's a 6-bolt if that helps with determining the engine any.
Jan. 26, 2009 7:06 p.m. belteshazzar Dork

Did they cut and weld new motor mounts? It was my understanding a 4G63 doesn't just bolt into a 1.8 car. Vin swap maybe?
Jan. 26, 2009 7:11 p.m. pigeon Reader

Stuc wrote:

Okay, well we already have it so the touching of it is inevitable.

LMAO!
Jan. 27, 2009 9:02 a.m. Armitage Reader

Stuc wrote:

Great info! Right now we're trying to figure out exactly what we have...

How can we tell if it is a turbo 4g63 or a n/a? I think there is a good chance that it is the turbo motor because the car actually came with the 1.8.

Well, if you dropped the oil pan and looked up into the block, the turbo motors have piston oil squirters. Easier would be to do a compression test. A healthy 1g turbo motor (7.8:1 compression) will read about 150-170psi.
Jan. 27, 2009 9:13 a.m. Armitage Reader

BTW: to identify what turbo you've got, there should be a number cast into the compressor housing, along with the housing size. If it says tdo5, look at the compressor wheel. If it only has one size of fin on the wheel, it's probably a 14b. If it's got alternating small and large fins, it's some variety of 16g.

From galantvr4.org:

There should be a 2 digit number pressed in between the "49178-01" and the following "0" (I added several to the to the list below from another source)

The numbers in parenthesis below are the numbers found pressed in that circle for 16g turbos:

49178-01(40)0: 14B

49178-01(41)0: Big 16G (VR-4 A-Spec, as in earlier model Group A)

49178-01(42)0: Big 16G (VR-4 RS)

49178-01(45)0: Evo I Big 16G

49178-01(46)0: Evo II Big 16G

49178-01(47)0: EVO III 16G

49178-01(52)0: Small 16G
Jan. 27, 2009 1:21 p.m. Stuc HalfDork

Awesome. Thanks, great information again. It is a TD05H, said so right on the compressor just like you said... don't know why I couldn't find it earlier!

Also, somehow, in all my brightness I thought that the engine specification on the hood would mean something in relation to the engine the car came with... when the hood was a different color than the car!!! So, I checked the VIN number and according to the tech reference on dsmtuners.com it was a turbo car originally (even though it's only a GS?), which doesn't agree with what the owner said, but is somewhat relieving. So, if it doesn't seem to be worth getting running atleast we get a 6bolt 4g63t out of it.

edit: I couldn't find the rest of the numbers on the turbo to see what kind it was.. might take it out later though and really look at it
Jan. 27, 2009 2:19 p.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

^Hahah, i just read the DSM article on here and it said that the GS depending on year was a FWD turbo.

So that probably takes the guesswork out of the engine.

Get it running, crush the BOV and run that thing at 17psi or so. It'll move nice. We hit 18psi on our GVR4 before it started to lean into danger zone, and that sucker was MOVING. Way heavier, too. Squatted hard enough in 2nd gear to drag the muffler on the ground.
Jan. 27, 2009 4:53 p.m. Stuc HalfDork

I swear I read it! It was a good article... just missed that I guess... been reading info on this stuff all days. Soo I took the turbo off and found the number. It didn't have a 2-digit stamped in a circle but it was sort of stamped in lighter... "03". It's not listed there but it's a 14b, stock 1st gen turbo, found it on this site.
http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm Thanks again