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July 31, 2009 11:33 a.m. poopshovel SuperDork

I would've missed this had I not opened my "Latest news from GRM" email.

"Caveman Class"

No power tools shall be used during the car’s construction—no welders, no machining, no air tools. Cars must use a carburetor(s) or mechanical fuel injection. No ECUs. Each Caveman Class car shall sport something primitive: animal skin or bone, ideally. All other Challenge rules apply.

Fantastic idea IMO. No more "Yeah, but the guys who build these things must be professional mechanics who have million dollar shops" BS whiners.
July 31, 2009 11:49 a.m. Supercoupe Reader

I asked a question in a different thread but got no reply, so I'll ask again.

By no machining, they mean no lathes,drill press',or other mechanised metal work. However, can I still use a hand held hack saw and a drill with a motor or must it be a non-electrical drill? I'm cutting a plate and need a few holes drilled and a brace and bit could get a little tiresome.
July 31, 2009 12:28 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

No power tools

I think that pretty much says it. Good news is, you'll have popeye forearms when all is said and done.
July 31, 2009 12:46 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

poopshovel wrote:

No power tools

I think that pretty much says it. Good news is, you'll have popeye forearms when all is said and done.

Yes, no power tools means no power tools. It's so easy a caveman can do it.
July 31, 2009 1:11 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

Oh, and I wouldn't consider a rifle a "power tool." They make holes in stuff pretty efficiently.
July 31, 2009 1:23 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

I think the "no power tool" rule might also help people simplify their builds.
July 31, 2009 1:27 p.m. nocones Reader

So a caveman class car will NEVER Run faster than 11.49?

And what about Brazing? That's combining metal with fire.. it should be allowed I think?
July 31, 2009 1:48 p.m. Keith UberDork

Don't see why not, you can braze with a torch.

Could you summarize the Caveman class as "all work can be done with the electricity and pressurized air cut off"?
July 31, 2009 1:52 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

Personally, I would go so far as to just say no electricity. If you can figure out a way to pressurize the air without electricity, more power to ya.

I kinda like the image of somebody jumping up and down on bellows for hours trying to get the tank up to pressure.

But I don't write the rules, so don't take that as anything more than my opinion.
July 31, 2009 2:02 p.m. ClemSparks UberDork

All caveman cars show up on 4 flat tires...

Unless, I guess, they're just big granite rollers
July 31, 2009 2:06 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

Tim Baxter wrote:

Personally, I would go so far as to just say no electricity. If you can figure out a way to pressurize the air without electricity, more power to ya.

I kinda like the image of somebody jumping up and down on bellows for hours trying to get the tank up to pressure.

But I don't write the rules, so don't take that as anything more than my opinion.

A bicycle works even better. Then again, the "NO AIR TOOLS" thing would sort of negate the need for a tankful of air. Damn. I wish I would've heard of this six months ago. I'm visualizing a Fred Flintstone mobile with lots of carved styrofoam bits, including a pair of feet that look like they're powering the car. We just crushed a $100 carb'd civic hatch a few months ago.
July 31, 2009 2:07 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

ClemSparks wrote:

All caveman cars show up on 4 flat tires...

Unless, I guess, they're just big granite rollers

"Great minds" and all that...
July 31, 2009 2:10 p.m. splitime New Reader

This is a great class for the old guys... but what about us youngins who grew up with EFI..

I think that is my only beef with the sub-class. I love the rest of it, other than not being able to have EFI. Otherwise I love the restrictions build wise.
July 31, 2009 2:15 p.m. Karl La Follette Reader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWu_J_3oJZk
July 31, 2009 2:21 p.m. cwh Dork

Lemme see now- Granny's Speed Shop adapters to put a SBF or SBC are advertised as a bolt in. Hmmmm.
July 31, 2009 2:25 p.m. Keith UberDork

If you know how EFI works, you'll be able to understand a carb. They're basically toilet bowls. And unlike EFI, hitting a carb with a hammer is actually a legitimate fix in some cases. Don't be scared of the caveman tech, splitime!
July 31, 2009 2:31 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

splitime wrote:

This is a great class for the guys who are constantly complaining that they don't have good enough tools or a nice enough shop or enough mechanical knowledge to build a challenge car.

fixed.

Buy carb'd 1st gen crx or 3g civic for a couple hundred bucks. Strip to -1500 lbs. Throw berkeley tons of nitrous at it (no power tools required for install.) Spend remaining budget on wheels, tires, suspension, and goofy "theme" stuff.

Top 5-10 in the auto-x, high 13 - low 14 1/4, decent concours score = Possible top 10 overall, likely #1 "in class."

Dew eeet.
July 31, 2009 2:32 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

Keith wrote:

If you know how EFI works, you'll be able to understand a carb. They're basically toilet bowls. And unlike EFI, hitting a carb with a hammer is actually a legitimate fix in some cases. Don't be scared of the caveman tech, splitime!

Hells yes. "GET ME MAH SPLITTIN' AXE!"
July 31, 2009 2:32 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

I think this would be a bit top-heavy...
July 31, 2009 2:33 p.m. Karl La Follette Reader

UG Ug I am thinking hog skins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxnoZIsMEa4&feature=channel_page
July 31, 2009 2:40 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

No power tools = no power tools. Hand drills ftw.
July 31, 2009 2:52 p.m. DustoffDave Reader

Just spend your budget to hire a wheelright and a blacksmith and let them loose on a pile of scrap metal. Stanley Steamer FTW!
July 31, 2009 3:02 p.m. poopshovel SuperDork

Per Schroeder wrote:

No power tools = no power tools. AR-15 ftw.
July 31, 2009 3:43 p.m. splitime New Reader

poopshovel wrote:

splitime wrote:

This is a great class for the guys who are constantly complaining that they don't have good enough tools or a nice enough shop or enough mechanical knowledge to build a challenge car.

fixed.

Buy carb'd 1st gen crx or 3g civic for a couple hundred bucks. Strip to -1500 lbs. Throw berkeley tons of nitrous at it (no power tools required for install.) Spend remaining budget on wheels, tires, suspension, and goofy "theme" stuff.

Your fix doesn't mean anything. What I said made sense by itself :p I don't have enough tools, I don't have a shop... but I've helped on a challenge car and I'm borrowing tools to work on my current personal one.

The other issue is anything that old anywhere in this area (midwest) is RUSTED and scrapped mostly by now. So thats what I'd mostly cry about :p The sweetspot for finding one that is low to no rust and cheap is typically from the EFI era.

That being said... I'll stick to my EFI cars. When I get around to playing with older cars (something big/old/v8)... even that will get an EFI treatment.
July 31, 2009 4:19 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

nocones wrote:

So a caveman class car will NEVER Run faster than 11.49?

And what about Brazing? That's combining metal with fire.. it should be allowed I think?

I thought David made an allowance for either a bolt in roll bar for your car, or an exact replica of it. Dave?

I was trying to find a friend's car which would have been perfect- have to take off a few things that were cut to make it look better. But all in all, it's a bolt together project he did with the original SPICA fuel injection (read- mechanical). It would have been pretty fun.

Alas, the car and owner are lost....

I think it's a way cool idea. A real challenge to find an old school car that's cheap, but not rusty.

Eric

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