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Aug. 4, 2009 12:27 p.m. donalson UltraDork

hmm... bet I could rig up a dremel type tool to run from off a stationary bike...

the way i'm reading it is it's a hands tool challenge... need to cut a bracket get out the hand saw... need a hole? get out the hand drill... for some reason i'm pretty sure the time spent would suck... but if you need it and you play by the rules its the way to play

my $100 yugo would have been about perfect :(... toss in a 1.5 fiat bottom end a hot cam and new carb(s) gutted out with some suspension work and it would be like a cheap version of the yugo from hell

for paint there is always the roll-on or spray can method... fiberglass work doesn't require power tools (although hand sanding would get old haha)

heck I would love to see somone do a super ghetto turbo system... could do something with a remote mount, pay a shop to weld a turbo flange to exhaust pipe... or could hand tool an adapter... with some JB weld and sheet metal build a sealed carb box (lot cheaper then adapting a carb to work with boost)

thoughts run though my mind :)
Aug. 4, 2009 12:51 p.m. SVreX UberDork

bluej wrote:

lets look at it from the standpoint of if you had bought the car and motor separate. you can purchase motor mounts for a variety of engine swaps. still a bit of a gray area but you paid for the parts instead of making them and that seems to fit Per's intent for the class.

You of all people should CERTAINLY know that bolt-in mounts DO NOT exist for all applications!

And no, they definitely do not exist for mine.
Aug. 4, 2009 1:05 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

SvRex-I would be glad to sell you the mounts we made for your car.
Aug. 4, 2009 1:07 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

I don't think the point is to make people use a hacksaw and file instead of a sawzall and grinder...I think the point is to reward somebody who is good with bolt ons. Take your favorite common car with plenty of available bolt ons, take things apart, clean everything up, put them back together, tune, race, win. A lightweight car (Civic, Miata, etc.) with lots of available bolt ons (suspension, turbo, etc.) and well documented setup tips can be a very potent machine without any gee whiz tools.

Bryce
Aug. 4, 2009 1:09 p.m. JmfnB MegaDork

Think Wood boat bolted to V8 s10 frame slammed to the ground.
Aug. 4, 2009 1:25 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Nashco wrote:

I don't think the point is to make people use a hacksaw and file instead of a sawzall and grinder...I think the point is to reward somebody who is good with bolt ons. Take your favorite common car with plenty of available bolt ons, take things apart, clean everything up, put them back together, tune, race, win. A lightweight car (Civic, Miata, etc.) with lots of available bolt ons (suspension, turbo, etc.) and well documented setup tips can be a very potent machine without any gee whiz tools.

Bryce

I think there's a degree of reward for people who are willing to make cuts with a hand saw. If I can gut my doors without power tools, that would be pretty cool. If I can cut lexan and install it w/o power tools....

The real hard part for this is finding a solid enough one to work on. poop's idea of the Civic or CRX seems to be the best to date- finding an Alfa would be very difficult.

E-
Aug. 4, 2009 1:34 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

I like the idea of a "bolt on" class. This one isn't it. Most of the good recipes involve EFI cars.
Aug. 4, 2009 1:54 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

MrJoshua wrote:

I like the idea of a "bolt on" class. This one isn't it. Most of the good recipes involve EFI cars.

That is true...barring fuel injection does spoil some of the best ones for those of us living in the now. Stupid cavemen.

Bryce
Aug. 4, 2009 2:00 p.m. SVreX UberDork

Ok GRM, so what is it?

Looks like there are a lot of opinions here.
Aug. 4, 2009 2:04 p.m. SVreX UberDork

MrJoshua wrote:

SvRex-I would be glad to sell you the mounts we made for your car.

As far as I can tell (without seeing an official set of rules), that car fits the bill so far.

If I'm right, I'll take on the rest of the build manually (AND run the BABE rally).

If I'm not understanding the intent, however, I will most certainly be annoyed if I am disqualified after a year of work with a hacksaw.

For the record, this is DEFINITELY not a bolt-on class car.
Aug. 4, 2009 2:46 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

SVreX wrote:

MrJoshua wrote:

SvRex-I would be glad to sell you the mounts we made for your car.

As far as I can tell (without seeing an official set of rules), that car fits the bill so far.

If I'm right, I'll take on the rest of the build manually (AND run the BABE rally).

If I'm not understanding the intent, however, I will most certainly be annoyed if I am disqualified after a year of work with a hacksaw.

For the record, this is DEFINITELY not a bolt-on class car.

Uh, if I'm not mistaken, this is a SUB class for the Challenge. As long as your car is <$2009, and meets all the rules of the road, it's still legal to run. Just may not be eleigible for this special sub class based on a Top Gear racing suggestion. Personally, since you are starting with a Miata, I'd say no in the first place- but that's just me.

DQ'd from a special class, maybe; DQ'd from the Challenge? I doubt it.

E-
Aug. 4, 2009 3:41 p.m. SVreX UberDork

I realize it would be allowed to run. I also recognize it won't win overall. I'd rather not go through the aggravation of doing it manually if the bottom line is that it didn't qualify for that sub-class anyway.

The best some of us can hope for is a sub-class recognition. This may sound strange, but some of us come TRYING to get Spirit of the Event, or Competitor's Choice, or Under $1000, or Worst Attempt to Bribe the Judges with full knowledge that we won't win the overall.

I'd just like to know what the intent is and the rules, so I can decide whether or not to participate in this particular sub-class. I don't mind a bit if my car doesn't qualify, but so far it sounds like it might.
Aug. 4, 2009 4:18 p.m. 16vCorey SuperDork

This is an awesome tool for this class. http://evansville.craigslist.org/tls/1304025317.html
Aug. 4, 2009 4:24 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

SVreX wrote:

Ok GRM, so what is it?

Looks like there are a lot of opinions here.

I haven't read the whole thread because, to be honest, it sounds like people are trying to overcomplicate something that's supposed to be simple. Here's the basic gist: The Caveman class came about to appease those who'd like to keep things simple and don't have the means or desire to build a full-on Challenge car. So, after nearly five minutes of thought, the Caveman class was my answer. It's supposed to be a fun, easy way to get involved with an already great event.
Aug. 4, 2009 4:34 p.m. SVreX UberDork

Great! Thanks.
Aug. 5, 2009 10:12 p.m. AngryCorvair Dork

i have the caveman class winner for sale now:

1983 porsche 944 with carb'd 355 chevy V8. comes with a set of 15x7 phone dials with 225/45 hoosier A6's, and a pair of 15x7 cookie cutters with hoosier 26x10 slicks. also comes with 2 16x7 and 2 16x8 mesh wheels wearing Azenis RT-215's in 205/55 that you could sell to fund replacing the weak starter, and when you pull it apart for detailing you can replace the clutch disc with one from a small-block mopar for $60.

$2000. you pick up in plymouth township MI.

delivery no longer an option, as i sold my tow dolly.

IIRC i finished 16th overall with this car in 2008. 13.96 at 98 in the drags with the clutch slipping in 3rd and 4th. 44.xxx in the autocross on a 40.3xx FTD with coolant overflow puking on left front tire thanks to thrown fan belt. didn't hurt engine and still runs great.
Aug. 5, 2009 10:41 p.m. carrotsnax New Reader

I see mention of carbs and mechanical injection but what about 2 foot power? Like the Fred and Barney?
Aug. 6, 2009 8:47 a.m. poopshovel SuperDork

16vCorey wrote:

This is an awesome tool for this class. http://evansville.craigslist.org/tls/1304025317.html

Hellz yes dude. We should build something for next year.
Aug. 6, 2009 9:28 a.m. 16vCorey SuperDork

poopshovel wrote:

16vCorey wrote:

This is an awesome tool for this class. http://evansville.craigslist.org/tls/1304025317.html

Hellz yes dude. We should build something for next year.

I would like that. This class kinda makes me want to get all kinds of cool vintage tools, just to keep the whiners whining. We could also hook a belt driven air compressor to a stationary bike to provide air. Not only would we have a cool car, we'd probably be in much better shape by the end of it. Weight reduction at it's finest!
Aug. 6, 2009 9:36 a.m. poopshovel SuperDork

See also:

poopshovel said:
A bicycle works even better. Then again, the "NO AIR TOOLS" thing would sort of negate the need for a tankful of air.
Aug. 6, 2009 9:59 a.m. 16vCorey SuperDork

Reading comprehension isn't my strong suit.
Aug. 17, 2009 11:58 a.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

The rules have now been opened up to include "Stock fuel injection"

Per
Aug. 17, 2009 12:07 p.m. MrJoshua SuperDork

Hmmmm-define stock?
Aug. 17, 2009 12:13 p.m. pinchvalve UltraDork

Tim Baxter wrote:

Personally, I would go so far as to just say no electricity. If you can figure out a way to pressurize the air without electricity, more power to ya.

I kinda like the image of somebody jumping up and down on bellows for hours trying to get the tank up to pressure.

But I don't write the rules, so don't take that as anything more than my opinion.

Have you been to the large Amish workshops in Ohio? Every modern woodshop tool you can imagine, all air-powered, and all run from a compressor that is fueled with natural gas from the property. No electricity, no connection to the grid. It can be done.
Aug. 17, 2009 12:37 p.m. egnorant Dork

I guess it pays to be a packrat! Still have grandpas hand drills, treadle operated grindstone and could easily convert many of my stuff to treadle power. Neighbor is competant blacksmith while brother is experienced in aluminum casting.

Bruce

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