GameboyRMH MegaDork
April 17, 2014 11:59 a.m.

They've mostly stuck to the same old layout - backbone chassis, double wishbones all-around. It looks like it'll be a true front-midship engine layout now though, the engine is fully behind the front axle:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/04/new-york-2014-mazda-skyactiv-chassis-live-shots/

Keith Tanner MegaDork
April 17, 2014 12:20 p.m.

Yup, it very much looks like an evolution of the original. The rear suspension is a multilink like the NC, but with a changed set of links. A few new aluminum bits. Electric power steering and a different sway bar layout because of it, but it's all quite familiar. The NC owners are all wound up about the move back to 4 bolt hubs, only in the Miata world is this news :)

Here's an interesting point that a customer brought up. In the press picture below, we see three belt-driven accessories. Alternator on the top right (facing the car), looks like AC on the top left...what's that down on the bottom right? It's not a PS pump.

Bobzilla PowerDork
April 17, 2014 12:28 p.m.

Waterpump. THat's the 3rd pullet. Most chain driven cams use belts for hte WP.

turboswede UltimaDork
April 17, 2014 12:28 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: Here's an interesting point that a customer brought up. In the press picture below, we see three belt-driven accessories. Alternator on the top right (facing the car), looks like AC on the top left...what's that down on the bottom right? It's not a PS pump.

It definitely looks like a pump of some sort. Doesn't look quite right for a water pump. I can't imagine it would be a fuel pump (I know DI requires very pressures, but I thought those were still electric). If it was a dry sump oil pump, the literature would be crowing about it. Curious. Very curious.

GameboyRMH MegaDork
April 17, 2014 12:30 p.m.

The thing on the bottom-right looks more like an AC compressor than the thing on the upper-left. It has fittings like one, a thicker pulley which suggests it has a clutch, and a wider belt.

Edit: Yeah a dry sump would be cool but those are much smaller and use a toothed belt.

Edit2: And DI engines use a mechanical fuel pump built into the engine for the ultra-high-pressure DI injectors.

mad_machine MegaDork
April 17, 2014 12:33 p.m.
Keith Tanner wrote: Yup, it very much looks like an evolution of the original. The rear suspension is a multilink like the NC, but with a changed set of links. A few new aluminum bits. Electric power steering and a different sway bar layout because of it, but it's all quite familiar. The NC owners are all wound up about the move back to 4 bolt hubs, only in the Miata world is this news :) Here's an interesting point that a customer brought up. In the press picture below, we see three belt-driven accessories. Alternator on the top right (facing the car), looks like AC on the top left...what's that down on the bottom right? It's not a PS pump.

I am going to say AC below the alternator and waterpump on the other side. The belt on the alternator is a thick ribbed belt while the other appears to just be a regular fan belt

bravenrace UltimaDork
April 17, 2014 12:35 p.m.

The item on the bottom right is most definitely the a/c compressor. I'm looking at one almost identical to it at this very moment.

Keith Tanner MegaDork
April 17, 2014 12:39 p.m.

External water pump, I hadn't thought of that. It's on a separate belt I think. GM engines often use a separate belt for the AC, so that's one reason my mind went that way. But it is a scrawny little belt.

The fittings on the lower right accessory sure look like AC ones for me, but I thought the pulley was sans clutch.

jstein77 SuperDork
April 17, 2014 12:51 p.m.

Last I heard, they were going to use a little bitty turbo motor, like 1.2L? Is that no longer the plan? What size motor is that, and what is their current prediction for total vehicle weight?

GameboyRMH MegaDork
April 17, 2014 12:54 p.m.

They've made some radical claims about incredibly low weight leading up to this, very close to the ones Toyota made before the Toyobaru was launched...

bgkast Dork
April 17, 2014 1:06 p.m.

Here is another view of the mystery accessory. Looks like water fittings maybe?

GameboyRMH MegaDork
April 17, 2014 1:08 p.m.

Yeah it's probably an external water pump. It's unusual for it to be so large and have such a large pulley, but I guess that lets them run a bigger pump at lower speeds to get the same flow and prevent cavitation, so that would make sense.

bluej SuperDork
April 17, 2014 1:13 p.m.

bgkast beat me. sure looks like a coolant fitting coming off the top, there.

So how long till the LSx version is ready, Keith

Keith Tanner MegaDork
April 17, 2014 1:16 p.m.

About weight: Mazda is now saying 100kg (220 lb) weight loss. I'm assuming that's relative to the NC, so we're in a good area. Not the sub-2000 lbs that had been bandied about, but comfortably below 2500 or even 2400.

They're also saying a very low CG (lower than any other Miata) and of course, low polar moment due to that engine setback. I have no complaints there.

Engine is a 2.0 Skyactive gas IIRC. Very high compression. Miatas have almost always had a unique variant of the engine, so it could be a fun little thing.

alfadriver PowerDork
April 17, 2014 1:16 p.m.

Probably not a normal water pump, but a clutched water pump. More and more those are finding their ways into engines.

FWIW, the DI fuel pump will be drive via the cam. Be it lobes on the cam or on the end of the cam- but there.

Sure doesn't look like it will be a turbo.

Opti New Reader
April 17, 2014 1:40 p.m.

That engine looks exactly like the mazda 3 skyactive except for the tb faces the opposite direction. it is a WP on the 3.

GameboyRMH MegaDork
April 17, 2014 1:45 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: Probably not a normal water pump, but a clutched water pump. More and more those are finding their ways into engines.

They make those!? I was just thinking that could be a good idea for faster engine heat-up, but then I couldn't think of a way to make them where they wouldn't either have to draw power most of the time, or failure of some part of the clutch mechanism wouldn't shut down your water pump.

alfadriver PowerDork
April 17, 2014 1:56 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote:
alfadriver wrote: Probably not a normal water pump, but a clutched water pump. More and more those are finding their ways into engines.

They make those!? I was just thinking that could be a good idea for faster engine heat-up, but then I couldn't think of a way to make them where they wouldn't either have to draw power most of the time, or failure of some part of the clutch mechanism wouldn't shut down your water pump.

Yes, and the failure mode is to have it on. So it takes power to de-clutch.

Not sure if this engine will have it, but with mazda's hype about Skyactive, I would expect it. In terms of fuel economy, it's a no brainer- a warm engine is MUCH more efficent than a cold one. For the measurement on the EPA cycles, it's pretty easy to see the benefit (especially if it also warms the trans up).

Alan Cesar Online Editor
April 17, 2014 2:02 p.m.
bgkast wrote: Here is another view of the mystery accessory. Looks like water fittings maybe?

Hello, aluminum control arms!

GameboyRMH MegaDork
April 17, 2014 2:04 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: Yes, and the failure mode is to have it on. So it takes power to de-clutch.

I thought about that, but it still requires a wearable friction material that will need to be replaced at some point. Still, best option I could think of.

Looking at this frame I think this car's going to look pretty different, I expect there will be little to no overhang on either end. Good for performance and it could look good if done properly.

alfadriver PowerDork
April 17, 2014 2:14 p.m.
GameboyRMH wrote:
alfadriver wrote: Yes, and the failure mode is to have it on. So it takes power to de-clutch.

I thought about that, but it still requires a wearable friction material that will need to be replaced at some point. Still, best option I could think of.

Looking at this frame I think this car's going to look pretty different, I expect there will be little to no overhang on either end. Good for performance and it could look good if done properly.

Sort of- you can design it as a one way clutch concept, so that it's not a friction interface vs. just a mechanical interface. There are some other clutch concepts than the friction style.

More than one way to skin that cat.

Keith Tanner MegaDork
April 17, 2014 3:22 p.m.

A water pump is really a consumable anyhow, so the clutch only has to outlast the pump!

Very interesting, thanks Alfa. Interestingly, we are currently installing an electric water pump on an NC that works the same way.

This car will be designed by the same guys who did the Mazda 6 and 3, which bodes well for a sports car. Neither of those are shy with the noses, though. Hopefully it won't fall prey to Camaro Syndrome, where the license plate is 5' in front of the crank pulley.

2.0dohc Reader
April 17, 2014 8:57 p.m.

Why, o Why can't they put a hatch-back body on this chassis??????? My next Miata will only be number 4, but I would rather have a bigger storage area then a top that will eventually leak/split/get cut. Yes I could get a brz/frs thing but I would rather support Mazda then Toyota.

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