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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » New to racing - what type car, IT v stock

Jan. 25, 2010 4:56 p.m. KS_beta None

Been on the sidelines for years and now ready to participate. After reading a lot here and elsewhere, I'm pretty confident that I'll have the most fun in autox and DE over the next couple of years. My issue is what type of car. (Rumours say that the make/model question has been asked and answered.)

I'm not clear on the pros and cons of starting with a stock car (and a stock autox class) and making sure it meets DE requirements versus starting with an IT car that's ready-to-race, exceeds DE safety requirements, but puts me in a more advanced autox class. One thought is that I'd learn more about the car mechanically and myself as a driver starting with stock. Additionally, I could drive it around town and I don't think an IT car would allow that. On the other hand, is there less work starting with an IT car so less time required (which is always the rub)?
Jan. 25, 2010 5:06 p.m. turboswede SuperDork

Stock or nearly stock cars allow your skills to grow with the car. Just like any other sport, you can buy high end equipment but if don't have the skills to use it what's the point?

When people start training for bicycle racing, they typically use heavier trainer bikes to build up their endurance and strength. When they switch to the lightweight race bike, they go like scalded cats.

Running a slower and more safe handling stock car allows the driver to train their brain to think ahead of where they are and to work on setting the car up before they get to the corner. Eventually you begin to react more quickly and shorten the time needed between corners to set the car up and you go faster and faster. At some point you may decide to modify the car and move up a class or two, but the skills carry over and you can begin learning how the car reacts and whether those mods were successful and what further changes might be needed.

You can also think of it this way: You can give a guy a sword and he might manage to kill someone with it, without killing or maiming himself. Hand that same sword to a master and well the victim will be just as dead but probably won't suffer much.
Jan. 25, 2010 5:57 p.m. jimbbski New Reader

A stock car can cost more to race then an IT car. Parts can be replaced and /or modified on an IT car that can't be changed from OEM on a stock class car. Engines can suffer from overheating or lack of oil pressure on a stock car where you can "fix" that on an IT car. Suspension had to remain stock, meaning that the stock car will eat brakes, shocks, and tires. On an IT car you can improve the suspension as well as replace the wheels. You can find a number of race ready of nearly so IT car for sale, a stock one not so much.
Jan. 25, 2010 6:22 p.m. Travis_K Dork

Its easier to make modify a car and make it go slower rather than faster, so you do need to think carefully about what upgrades are necessary in the more modified classes.
Jan. 25, 2010 6:47 p.m. ckosacranoid HalfDork

how about just run some lemons to see whats it all about to see what WW is like?
Jan. 25, 2010 9:46 p.m. westsidetalon New Reader

Unless you have the room/resources, if you purchase a full blown improved touring car it more then likely needs trailered and stored, which is time and money Both of my ITS cars were once street legal(plated) in the beginnings of their careers. The only way I could afford it.
Jan. 26, 2010 12:00 a.m. Salanis SuperDork

It is cheaper to buy already built than to build up a car yourself. If you're just starting, I'd start by figuring out what part of the sport grabs your interest the most. Figure out if you're an auto-x'er that like to occasionally hit the track, or if you're a track driver who likes to occasionally auto-x. I'd start by just auto-xing in whatever you have now. Or find a nice friend willing to share a car with you.

If you buy a used Spec Car (of pretty much any variety), chances are strong that you will be able to sell it for roughly your purchase price when you finally figure out what you want to do.

Otherwise, pick up something inexpensive, simple, common, and versatile.

Don't worry about what class you're in for anything, because you're not going to be competitive for a while. Just take it easy and have fun.
Jan. 26, 2010 7:20 a.m. tr8todd New Reader

Your best bet is to start in IT. Pick up a good used one in the 5 to 10K range. A VW or Honda is a good choice. Safety gear is expensive and needs to be replaced on a regular basis, so keep those expenses in mind. SS cars tend to be newer and therefore more expensive.
Jan. 26, 2010 8:15 a.m. joepaluch New Reader

DE is very simple.

Not a competition and you just drive any car on the track. Some cars are better suited to DE than others, but since you are not racing it does not make much difference.

Most fast guys in DE are not fast due to their car, but due to driver skill. So when you start in DE you can run anything.

Once you get more comfortable in DE they key is a fun car. Like autocross hp is not big fact in most cars, but a solid non-boat like chassis is key to fun. SS cars roll alot due to soft stock springs.
Jan. 26, 2010 8:37 a.m. stumpmj Dork

The standard answer is Miata but That means a minimum of a roll bar to do DEs and some organizations still won't let you run a convertable.
How competetive do you want to be at autoX (i.e. are you just doing it for fun or do you have a need to win)? What's your budget?
Jan. 26, 2010 9:35 a.m. iceracer HalfDork

If you have never done any high speed events before, DE with a stock car is the thing to do. You may have the intent to go racing but after running at high speed with other cars around along with the cornering and braking, you could find out that it is something you don't want to do after all. So start out small and build as you progress. One thing to keep in mind, racing ain't cheap. Anykind.
Jan. 26, 2010 9:36 a.m. iceracer HalfDork

If you have never done any high speed events before, DE with a stock car is the thing to do. You may have the intent to go racing but after running at high speed with other cars around along with the cornering and braking, you could find out that it is something you don't want to do after all. So start out small and build as you progress. One thing to keep in mind, racing ain't cheap. Anykind.
Jan. 26, 2010 9:38 a.m. iceracer HalfDork

Sorry for the double, site slow to post.
Jan. 26, 2010 11:59 a.m. chaparral New Reader

Get a kart. The nut behind the wheel is typically the component that slows anything down more than anything else, and you'll never get as much track time in a car.
Jan. 26, 2010 12:05 p.m. Kentetsu New Reader

This worked out very well for me:

1st gen RX7: $1,000.00 Exhaust: $800.00 Carb: $400.00 Suspension: $1,000.00 Tires: $200.00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWpEYAKo0fU
Jan. 28, 2010 12:53 p.m. KS_beta New Reader

To answer a few questions from above:

I think over time I want to spend more time on track v autox, however I believe the autox will really help build skills. That's just my inexperienced leanings right now.

I'm a competitive person, but this is mainly about fun and competing with myself right now. If I really get addicted, that'll change.

I don't have a car to use at this point, only full-size trucks. That's the basis for the questions. I have room to add a (singular) car and I'm hoping for a multi-tasker that I can use for autox, DE, and on the road (need to teach my kids to drive a stick). I don't want to skimp on safety during DE, hence my thought about an IT car that is street legal. But perhaps that's overkill. Voices of experience are welcomed.
Jan. 28, 2010 4:06 p.m. joepaluch New Reader

I would not drive a fully caged car on the street. Roll bar yes, but cage no. The most I would do with a caged car is to and from the track.

Seems like the best thing for you is a stock or lightly modded street car. Miata is good or a civic if fwd is ok. I am partial to 944's and would go that way personally. My only concern is kids learning to drive stick in one. You would probably need to do a clutch at least once which is not the easist job.
Jan. 28, 2010 4:50 p.m. amg_rx7 Reader

Buy THE book: http://goaheadtakethewheel.com/How_to_Start_Racing.html
Jan. 28, 2010 7:57 p.m. Spinout007 HalfDork

Miata the universal answer, hard dog bar, go for broke, or just wait for the challenge and pick up something someone doesn't want to drag home.....did that last year instead of building a car, and I'm seriously contemplating using the challenger to deliver pizza. number plates and all.
Jan. 30, 2010 7:14 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

No cage for a street car...the glamour quickly disappears when you have to climb in/out of the thing. Then there is the whole safety debate of having those tubes close to your un-helmeted head...

Auto-x is good for teaching car handling and control skills, but most every racing instructor I've taken schooling from doesn't believe it is very applicable to higher speed track work. I can tell you that once you do a track day, autocross isn't going to be too exciting anymore.
Jan. 30, 2010 4:44 p.m. motomoron Reader

Unless you're wired differently than most of the addicts here, autocross is a gateway motorsport. I did a season of stock class AX in my M3 e36, built it up to do STU class and a couple track events. It's not competitive in STU but is a great track car now. I'm doing fixed back seats, harnesses and 4 point roll bar shortly and am working toward instructing. I'm probably doing race school in a rented Miata in March.

To be truly competitive in SCCA type autocross you've got to have the right car for the class, as opposed to DEs where anything set up correctly can be great. And a great AX car may not be a great DE car. If you think the DE bug may stick with you and you have a place to keep it, an old IT car would be hard to beat on the basis of safety and cost.

Here's some crack for you: http://www.racingjunk.com/category/4/Road_Racing_Cars.html

...Sub $5k IT cars every week. I have a really hard time not buying one.
Feb. 1, 2010 11:03 a.m. joepaluch Reader

ddavidv wrote: Auto-x is good for teaching car handling and control skills, but most every racing instructor I've taken schooling from doesn't believe it is very applicable to higher speed track work. ...

I have instructed at many DE's and always value autocross. It not 100% the same as big track driving, but it is the place to try new things since the risks are so much lower. Once you master then in autocross you start to apply in the big tracks.

The one issue with autocross is that the very good autocrossers use techniques that work well in an autocross enviroment. These tend to not work a well on tracks.

So just like anything if you get too optimized for parking lot it just won't work a the track. However that is when you seek that last 2-3% at an autocross that they diverge. Up to 90% it is all the same.

BTW... I only find autocross boring from the stand point of waiting around all day for 3-4 runs and less than 5 mintues of track time. A typical race day for me is just less than 1.5 hours on the track. All for the same 1 day.

Of course I do pay more.

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