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ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
11/11/11 10:36 a.m.

Ransom and I have just aquired the new project car/auto-X weapon/summer toy/potential challenger. It is very clear that we need to build it around its tires...but what tires?

The car is a 1960 Vespa 400. Just a rotten shell so I have no qualms about ruining it. I am giving it a new life. That GSX-R600 motor in the garage gets a new life as well

The plans include big flares and lots of tread width but the one thing I didn't realize was so limited is the space between the door and the front of the car. This means SHORT tires. Preferrably under 21"

I found a few sporty 175/50-13's. Not as wide as I would like but will probably seem like steamrollers on this thing.

No longer cheap though since the sumitomos are all gone

The conti 195/45-13 is a good looking candidate but with only one tire avaliable in the US it could dissapear without warning

I would rather stay away from 10 inch wheels as I would like cheap brake rotor sources but the mini standard 165/70-10 could be made to fit. Too Narrow though, and mini vendors know they have you by the short ones so they are not cheap.

And the last choice. Despite their ideal sizing these 215/40-12 and 205/30-12 are DOT rated golf cart tires and as such I am betting aren't the best performing things out there.

Does anyone know of any other sub 21 inch tires with sporting intentions? How can I get a hold of cast off FSAE tires?

I will get some pics of the shell up this evening since my phone is far from smart and I cannot upload from it.

I have been trying to buy this car for almost 10 years now and the seller brought it to me today. I am delighted.

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
11/11/11 11:14 a.m.

What about some of the larger go-kart tires? Or what they run on the Legends cars?

NONACK
NONACK New Reader
11/11/11 11:22 a.m.

Our FSAE tires are 18" tall, and go on 10"x6" ATV wheels (can be had in 4x110, 4x114.3). We'd sell you old ones cheap, too.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic SuperDork
11/11/11 11:31 a.m.

The problem I see with Formula SAE slicks is they aren't DOT rated so that isn't allowed at the Challenge.

turboswede
turboswede SuperDork
11/11/11 11:35 a.m.

Seems like the ideal solution is to move the wheels forward to gain the necessary room.

That or move the wheels out so far that they clear the doors and leave the back of the flares open to allow the doors to open.

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
11/11/11 11:36 a.m.

The tire used for the Legends series is a 'Legends Edition' 205/60R13 Way too tall. I don't know much about karts. All I found was 5" wheels or golf cart stuff.

I was really hoping for at least 12" wheels but really 13's seemed optimal. Are 13" wheels less common in FSAE? I was hoping to build the suspension around 4X100 hubs.

I really wanted to make an offer on these 13X7 wheels

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
11/11/11 11:37 a.m.
93EXCivic wrote: The problem I see with Formula SAE slicks is they aren't DOT rated so that isn't allowed at the Challenge.

I worried about that as well but I figured these would be for local competition

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
11/11/11 11:42 a.m.
turboswede wrote: Seems like the ideal solution is to move the wheels forward to gain the necessary room.

Suicide front end on a microcar? I kind of like it but....no.

They will be going way out. Looking at european hillclimb cars as inspiration

nocones
nocones HalfDork
11/11/11 11:48 a.m.

Easy 255/40/R13's all around Hoosier A6. Should be able to find castoffs from somewhere. Or 225/45R13 Hankooks. Both are 21"

For full slicks you should have all kinds of options at 18-20" heights.
For street use (if that's a concern) who cares it's light enough run A6's or R6's if they are available ;) Or run Toyo R888's in 225/45R13 which I hear are similar to Pilot sport cups in their ability to be used on the street.

imirk
imirk Reader
11/11/11 11:57 a.m.
ditchdigger wrote: Suicide front end on a microcar? I kind of like it but....no. They will be going way out. Looking at european hillclimb cars as inspiration

Gods Man! Don't do something like this and not post a build link.

mw
mw HalfDork
11/11/11 11:58 a.m.

I've got 225/45/13 r888's on the miata and love them

unevolved
unevolved Dork
11/11/11 12:14 p.m.

Keizer has a wide range of 13" wheels with a 4x100 bolt pattern.

Sultan
Sultan Reader
11/11/11 12:19 p.m.

This will be so EPIC that I will only listen to Fanfare for the Common Man while reading your posts!!!

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
11/11/11 12:21 p.m.

outside of the tires and engine, I can't wait to see your plans for the beast.

Based on the pictures, it appears that you will be retaining the original suspension system? (appears to be a strut type)

What about in the rear.

I kind of picture a FSAE car with a body on it. Or something like that.

imirk
imirk Reader
11/11/11 12:24 p.m.

AHA my internet fu reveals: http://jonsibal.com/blog/2011/06/fiat-126-blackbird/

ransom
ransom Dork
11/11/11 12:26 p.m.

Tire rack says the 225/45-13s are 20.8-20.9" (for Hankook and Hoosier; the only ones they have in that size)... And they state a 7" minimum rim width, so those 13x7s would work.

Hrm...

pigeon
pigeon Dork
11/11/11 12:29 p.m.

I had to look it up - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_400 Should give the Subie-Wartburg a run for its money in the quirky rear engine builds category at the next Challenge. Please please please do a build thread.

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
11/11/11 12:33 p.m.
imirk wrote: AHA my internet fu reveals: http://jonsibal.com/blog/2011/06/fiat-126-blackbird/

Similar, but not the same. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KujCUCgn6TY&feature=related

Same idea, though.

Something tells me that an Italian bike motor should be in the works, eventually.

BTW- on that 126 that imirk posted- anyone have any idea where they go the second gear box- it appears to be a housing for a chain drive of some type. Interesting.

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
11/11/11 12:40 p.m.

I know that the 126 used a Rover transfer case at first but they chickened out and bought a used quaife. I kind of like the idea. 1WD or locked diff high and low ranges.

There will be a build thread and no we will not be using anything resembling the original vespa front and rear swing arm suspension. Willtheyfit.com is jsut an awesome wheel and tire calculator.

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
11/11/11 12:41 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: Something tells me that an Italian bike motor should be in the works, eventually.

Something appropriately 2 stroke as well?

Oddly enough the vespa was built in france!

ransom
ransom Dork
11/11/11 12:41 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: BTW- on that 126 that imirk posted- anyone have any idea where they go the second gear box- it appears to be a housing for a chain drive of some type. Interesting.

I believe it's an '89-'95 Land Rover (or was it Range Rover?) transfer case. In the end, the commissioner of the 126 found an affordable deal on a Quaife Powertec. Sounds like they were worried about how suitable the Rover unit was for this use...

I'm just puzzled about what they had, if anything, for a diff in there. In poking around I found a reference to one selling with a new viscous unit, which seems wholly unsuitable for use between the rear wheels. Perhaps they were just going to lock it solid...

ditchdigger
ditchdigger Dork
11/11/11 12:42 p.m.
ransom wrote: Tire rack says the 225/45-13s are 20.8-20.9" (for Hankook and Hoosier; the only ones they have in that size)... And they state a 7" minimum rim width, so those 13x7s would work. Hrm...

Minilites with 195/45's for the street. Diamond racing 13X8's for the track?

ransom
ransom Dork
11/11/11 12:43 p.m.

In reply to ditchdigger:

I dig it...

alfadriver
alfadriver SuperDork
11/11/11 12:44 p.m.
ditchdigger wrote:
alfadriver wrote: Something tells me that an Italian bike motor should be in the works, eventually.
Something appropriately 2 stroke as well? Oddly enough the vespa was built in france!

Is there a superbike 2 stroke that's available "enough"?

I was thinking more ducati. There's got to be a lot of organ donor accident type bikes out there....

No idea that the car was french. that would imply pedals.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury SuperDork
11/11/11 12:48 p.m.
imirk wrote: AHA my internet fu reveals: http://jonsibal.com/blog/2011/06/fiat-126-blackbird/

or http://retropower.co.uk/projects_126_Blackbird.htm

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