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GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
5/22/15 8:36 a.m.

Nissan didn't want to make a unique platform for one car.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/05/nissan-idx-is-super-dead-but-parts-may-live-on-in-fwd-platform/

They wanted to put a CVT into it anyway.

jimbob_racing
jimbob_racing Dork
5/22/15 8:46 a.m.

They say they can't afford to do a stand alone rwd platform and sell it profitably. Right. Mazda sure doesn't seem to have a problem with that.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 PowerDork
5/22/15 8:47 a.m.

They probably recognized the futility of their pursuit. I had the opportunity to drive the Scion FR-S over the weekend. It's hard to find anything to nit-pick, and it's really an enjoyable car to drive, particularly with the 6-speed manual.

scardeal
scardeal Dork
5/22/15 8:54 a.m.

All they need to do, IMO, is make it share a platform with the next gen Z car. But, then again, I am not an engineer.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
5/22/15 8:54 a.m.

Yep between the Toyobaru and the ND Miata, and soon Toyota's new I4 RWD car and perhaps the Honda S1k, the competition is getting stiff.

HappyAndy
HappyAndy UberDork
5/22/15 8:55 a.m.

Sad, but not at all surprising.

chiodos
chiodos Reader
5/22/15 8:57 a.m.

Probably cause there was so much enthusiasts hype about the twins yet when it came to sales, they didn't do like anyone hoped so nissan decided to stay with making awd on road only suv convertables and other assorted appliances.

NOHOME
NOHOME UltraDork
5/22/15 9:00 a.m.

Nissan missed the boat when Toyota and Subaru built the 240Z replacement before they did.

At the price-point, this is a tough market segment since the car must have distinctive (read impractical) styling, a very capable chassis and enough HP to be entertaining, but not so much that it scares the insurance industry. The masses will not appreciate the handling. The enthusiast will whine about not enough power. This leaves you with an impractical car with a style that will appeal strongly to some people and repel others. And lets not forget: Nissan has to make money also.

Mazda played the game well by embracing the rules and building a car for the niche. Making it a convertible actually helps focus the market segment. Mazda added one other item that has served them well...since day one the Miata have exhibited darn near cockroach levels of reliability and durability. The twins have failed in this area with a lot of early release glitches that they are still paying for.

chiodos
chiodos Reader
5/22/15 9:10 a.m.

Makes me wonder if the only reason mazda still makes miatas is the converable aspect. Old people and women love a vert but dont care about any of the good stuff we enjoy in a miata. Kinda like mazda says "heres your enthusiasts car, sorry we had to disguise it as a convertable its the only way it would sell enough"

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
5/22/15 9:14 a.m.
1988RedT2 wrote: They probably recognized the futility of their pursuit. I had the opportunity to drive the Scion FR-S over the weekend. It's hard to find anything to nit-pick, and it's really an enjoyable car to drive, particularly with the 6-speed manual.

They are especially fun on corn juice.

kanaric
kanaric Dork
5/22/15 9:16 a.m.

Writings been on the wall that Nissan doesn't care about enthusiast market for quite a while now.

Much to the joy of companies like Subaru and Ford.

chiodos wrote: Probably cause there was so much enthusiasts hype about the twins yet when it came to sales, they didn't do like anyone hoped so nissan decided to stay with making awd on road only suv convertables and other assorted appliances.

Well the hype was the 300hp 2600lb turbocharged car they showed at conventions. What was delivered was a car that weighed 200lbs more and lost 100hp. They pretty much lost the hype when they refused to make the car they showed.

chiodos
chiodos Reader
5/22/15 9:22 a.m.

Its all the bean counters fault... im sure there are plenty of engineers at nissan that miss twin turbo 300zx and s30 datsuns but the accountants and whathaveyous are the ones in charge of which cars make it to production and which dont. Maybe ever automobile manufacturer needs a grm member (or committee! Look how much better of a camaro we would have made! Lol) make sure they dont keep pumping out a bunch of crap.

kanaric
kanaric Dork
5/22/15 9:27 a.m.
chiodos wrote: Its all the bean counters fault... im sure there are plenty of engineers at nissan that miss twin turbo 300zx and s30 datsuns but the accountants and whathaveyous are the ones in charge of which cars make it to production and which dont. Maybe ever automobile manufacturer needs a grm member (or committee! Look how much better of a camaro we would have made! Lol) make sure they dont keep pumping out a bunch of crap.

Ya even since Renault took them over they have been like this. Meanwhile Renault makes interesting cars all the time. I almost feel like they should badge engineer their "enthusiast" stuff as Nissans in the US at this point. Or at least sell them on the same lots. I used to be a huge Nissan fanboy but they are pretty much like a car company of the past to me now like Mitsubishi has become.

MCarp22
MCarp22 Dork
5/22/15 9:30 a.m.
kanaric wrote:
chiodos wrote: Probably cause there was so much enthusiasts hype about the twins yet when it came to sales, they didn't do like anyone hoped so nissan decided to stay with making awd on road only suv convertables and other assorted appliances.

Well the hype was the 300hp 2600lb turbocharged car they showed at conventions. What was delivered was a car that weighed 200lbs more and lost 100hp. They pretty much lost the hype when they refused to make the car they showed.

When were they going to be 300hp? I seem to remember them being billed as the "sucessor to the AE86 lightweight pure driver's momentum car"

kanaric
kanaric Dork
5/22/15 9:31 a.m.
MCarp22 wrote:
kanaric wrote:
chiodos wrote: Probably cause there was so much enthusiasts hype about the twins yet when it came to sales, they didn't do like anyone hoped so nissan decided to stay with making awd on road only suv convertables and other assorted appliances.

Well the hype was the 300hp 2600lb turbocharged car they showed at conventions. What was delivered was a car that weighed 200lbs more and lost 100hp. They pretty much lost the hype when they refused to make the car they showed.

When were they going to be 300hp? I seem to remember them being billed as the "sucessor to the AE86 pure driver's momentum car"

When every concept of it until the very last one had a turbocharged 300hp engine. All the FT86 concepts had that power.

They changed it to "momentum car". The hype they built was off of that 300hp car they put in all those video games, showed at conventions, and advertised. That is why they hype died. The JDM YO enthusiasts wanted the turbo and 300hp.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
5/22/15 9:33 a.m.

All the concepts were ridiculously light too, I think the concept in GT5 was 2100lbs or less?

kanaric
kanaric Dork
5/22/15 9:35 a.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: All the concepts were ridiculously light too, I think the concept in GT5 was 2100lbs or less?

Yes, I think the earlier concept had no power advertised but it was promised to be like Miata weight.

They basically put a ton of promises out that made it FAR more extreme than it was and just released a modern 240SX instead. If they advertised what it was from the beginning it probably would have generated much less buzz and never be put to production like this IDX though, lol

MCarp22
MCarp22 Dork
5/22/15 9:54 a.m.
kanaric wrote: They changed it to "momentum car". The hype they built was off of that 300hp car they put in all those video games, showed at conventions, and advertised. That is why they hype died. The JDM YO enthusiasts wanted the turbo and 300hp.

Aside from the G-Sports concept back in 2010, I wasn't able to find any evidence of a 300hp production turbo model.

I think all the fanbois just hyped up 300hp themselves.

induction_junction
induction_junction New Reader
5/22/15 10:04 a.m.

I'm waiting for the day they stop making the GTR and Z so I can laugh at them for the Nismo Juke being their flagship performance model.

I do wonder though, if it would've had more potential to be profitable were it a convertible like the Miata. I doubt the later ones would have had the success they did if they were all 2 door coupes instead. Make a nice looking convertible with their boring cvt or auto that would appeal to the masses so the odd few enthusiasts can order them with the manual option.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku PowerDork
5/22/15 10:06 a.m.
HappyAndy wrote: Sad, but not at all surprising.

this

kanaric
kanaric Dork
5/22/15 10:13 a.m.
MCarp22 wrote:
kanaric wrote: They changed it to "momentum car". The hype they built was off of that 300hp car they put in all those video games, showed at conventions, and advertised. That is why they hype died. The JDM YO enthusiasts wanted the turbo and 300hp.
Aside from the G-Sports concept back in 2010, I wasn't able to find any evidence of a 300hp production turbo model. I think all the fanbois just hyped up 300hp themselves.

They didn't hype the weight that was claimed by toyota popularly, and they promised performance variants that even you have seen with a quick google search. Also every version of it they put in video games to market it all had 300hp minimum.

Car still has regular brakes, regular power, regular weight, etc. The only reason it's considered any close to good now is because it's similar to a car from the 90s in all those regards. The 240SX obviously. Every thing people said negative about the 240SX is said the same about the FRS. The FRS really won't be very "popular" until it is several years old and can be had for $10k and under. Until then it's the car that toyota forgot about.

I want brembos, recaros, suspension, tires sport package on this car. They don't offer E36 M3. They offer a car they expect you to mod for $25k if you are an enthuiast. If i'm going to get a car i'm expected to mod i'm not getting something new or i'm getting something that I can be satisfied with the power levels AND handling capabilities once modded. Like the WRX.

Toyota also famously has had great items available from TRD. They offer E36 M3 for this car. Their supercharger they offered for $15k was a joke.

Meanwhile all their concepts had a car that was either EXACTLY like the AE86 at like 2100 pounds someone here said or had turbo, brembos, etc. Either method would have been acceptable. If I had a 200hp car that was like 2100lbs or even 2500lbs that would be an amazing car. Meanwhile right now it's just a RWD Civic SI coupe. People picking Fiesta ST over it as the "better choice" when that shouldn't even be a consideration. However it is because the car is so meh. Just like how people thought of the 240SX when IT was new. Meanwhile overseas they get the proper 240SX. It's the same E36 M3 again but world wide.

Again, why would I buy a car I NEED to mod to be satisfied with? At that price? If i'm going to do that, risk warranties, etc I will buy something else. Like I did in buying a Skyline GTS-T. It's everything that the FRS is and it's from berkeleying 1989. If I wanted to buy a car from 1989 yes the FRS would be an EXCELLENT choice. However it's from the 2010s. Everyone has moved on from the 80s and 90s in power and performance not remain stuck there like Japanese companies seem to be with cars like the FRS. Hot hatches have improved radically with cars like the new GTI and Fiesta ST, AWD cars are far superior in cars like the STI, pony cars are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better having almost 200 more hp and very good handling, cars like the FRS? Have taken steps backward if anything. The S13 Silvia SR20DET car is better than the FRS. The GTS-T skylines are better than the FRS. In any measurable stat or technical ability. The 300ZX TT is better than the 350/370z. The 240SX is as well arguably. The MR2 Turbo is better than the FRS. The EF/EK Civics are BETTER than the current gen. The Integra and RSX is better than the TSX/Civic SI. There are not objective opinions, they are bordering factual statements. They were lighter, at times more powerful even, better handling, and better from an enthusiast perspective. The FRS is no different. The CONCEPTS however WERE modern and not something from a bygone era.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
5/22/15 10:18 a.m.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3787

I think you're making up this whole 300hp thing.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
5/22/15 10:19 a.m.

Remember when Nissan had balls?

turtl631
turtl631 Reader
5/22/15 10:32 a.m.

Big Nissan fan here too, I've always had a modded S14 240SX, but they've really lost it. Agree on FRS=240SX comments.

BlueInGreen44
BlueInGreen44 HalfDork
5/22/15 10:34 a.m.
Appleseed wrote: Remember when Nissan had balls?

That about sums it up.

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