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This isn't a "learn me on" thread or a "what to buy" thread. Just curious why the S13-chassis 240SX doesn't seem to be particularly popular amongst the GRM crowd.
They're lightweight, well-balanced, IRS, the hatchback has GOBS of room, and they get decent fuel economy.
The only reason I can see the E30 eeking past it for the holy trinity is that there's a spec series for the bimmer, and maybe people are down on the KA24.
I think part of it may be the "Drift Tax".
Yup. Kinda like the Corolla--er, um, AE-86. They're cool cars though.
My first car was a $500 POS S13. As junky as it was (blown head gasket and piston ring, overheated easily, rust, rust, rust, etc.), I credit it with sparking my interest in racing and RWD cars. Part of the reason I bought my FC was because I missed driving an RWD car so much. I still want to build an LSx-powered SilEighty.
neon4891 wrote:I think part of it may be the "Drift Tax".
The drift tax includes body damage on anything you do find for sale.
The 240's until very recently had a record of performing very poorly in a motorsports setting. It wasnt until a few years ago that one made it to the nationals in autocross and that car (featured in GRM) was treated as an oddity because of it. They had a truck motor that didnt suit the car and the weight is distributed at both ends of the chassis which while it makes it well ballanced and easy to control in a drift also makes it turn slower (polar moment of inertia or something or other
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I remember that article - that car kept the rear wheel steering right?
We like them, we just like prefer E30s, and Miatas for IRS type vehicles ;)
The KA-series engine is much-maligned, it's a great motor with some serious torque down low. Many have thrown a turbo on it with great results. Or even with a simple CAI intake, header, highflow cat, and aftermarket exhaust, they'll really wake up on the top end, without sacrificing the low-end torque.
I like the S13/S14s, they're beautiful cars. Being from the Northeast, finding one without significant rust is very tough. Most in the area have not been maintained well. The fact that most owners of the cars seem to be teenagers and the cars demand a drift tax premium turns a lot of people off.
Most of the ones around here seem to have artist as PO. All of the interior dash trim pieces are always painted. 
(baddly I might add)
I've been into 240's for about a decade now... owned 4 or 5 of em.
KA is a pretty good motor for a daily driver, and with intake/header/catback it will shut down your average intake/exhaust civic or other FWD.
They are dirt cheap... DIRT cheap. anyone who bitches about the drift tax is lazy. I bought my last one, a full rolling shell missing only engine and transmission, for $150 with minor body damage. The one before that was complete (thought it turned out to have a cracked head) and a convertible and I scored it for $650 and made about half of that back selling the good automatic, harness, ECU, and motor. The other two were solid drivers and I didn't pay more than $2000 for each of them.
at any rate, they are plenty cheap for what you get. They are very safe cars to crash in, they are very simple, lots of room to work on everything, very serviceable, parts are insanely cheap and they arguably have as good an aftermarket as the civic or mustang. They are overengineered in everyway, with a drivetrain that will easily take 400 hp without flinching. There are kits to swap in just about every motor worth swapping... RB series, 1jz/2jz, ls1, lt1, 305, 302, 350, VQ series, VG series, its all been done.
I think they are great cars and I hope I find myself in a situation where I can build another one eventually. I think I'd like to build one for rally.
Free high fives for anyone with a rally 240sx!
What about the S-12 chassis? The SE came with the V6 out of the 300zx. Altough I vaguely remember someone posting this era Nissan V6 was a total bitch to work on.
GTwannaB wrote:What about the S-12 chassis? The SE came with the V6 out of the 300zx. Altough I vaguely remember someone posting this era Nissan V6 was a total bitch to work on.
The V6 barely fit.
The S12 was also avaliable with a 2.0 NA and the 1.8 turbo.
I loved my '87 S12.
S12 had handling problems caused by the motion of the rear suspension. weird caster/toe stuff. not easily fixed. Different rear subframe than other cars with an aftermarket.
S12 had engine problems- the NA 2.0 is ... a pig. the turbo was ca18e. No aftermarket. Quite piggish, but probably the best option until it blows up. The v6 was... UGH... vg30e. One of the most disgusting terdlike anchors to emerge from nissan's mid 80's lineup. Had ok torque. E36 M3ty everything else. No way to make power off one. And heavy. Made the S12 super nose heavy.
If you could find a cheap S12 with no rust it would make a nice lightweight old school starting project to house a better motor, but as far as I've seen, there are NO rustfree examples anywhere, and anything in decent shape is more money than its worth.
I see alot of the third gen ones down here in ATL. I think they are pretty.
Do the cars weigh much?
My first THREE cars were 240's, two '89 coupes and a '95 SE. My first was an '89 coupe in soft silver and grey two-tone that I wish I hadn't beat to hell (but it was my first car, I was supposed to) because it was so pretty. I even had girls complimenting its cleanliness when I first took it out on the town.
Here's what I can say about the S-chassis...they are TOUGH. I ran my silver S13 on two quarts of oil for more than a week (stupid noob) and after much swearing and topping off the oil it ran as smooth as glass, and never gave me any engine trouble. Not to mention it took physical abuse very well, from a kid who knew how to crash cars
The the DOHC KA24DE definitely liked to rev a bit more than the SOHC in my '89 did, but neither of them are particularly rev-happy. The S14 chassis definitely felt more balanced than the S13, which had a light rear-end and was quite snappy. My S13s weighed around 2700 lbs, I think the S14 was only a bit heavier.
I'd love to get another S14 and do an LSx swap. Or even another S13 and build it up right with an SR20 and a Silvia front end like I wanted to when I was in high-school, but never had the money for. sigh
It's the drifter association.
Most hard core grip drivers look down on drifters. Most think they are hoodlums and punks that don't know what they are doing. And on the whole, they are right, but it's no different at any autocross, HPDE, or drag race.
I'm not trying to offend anyone, but this is the truth like it or not.
But unlike hoodlums in their natural setting, any fellow car guy is an equal at an event. After partaking in many drift events now, I prefer the atmosphere at them far more than any other motorsports event I've been to. Most racer types don't get drifting because it doesn't have a rigid defined competitive goal. Unlike other motorsports, drifting 99% of the time it's focused on how much fun you have. Where others are 50/50 with fun, and coming in 1st.
No that there's anything wrong with that!
Shoulda linked this already: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/drifters-dream-nissan-240sx/
The S13's are good drifters because the rear suspension has a ton of "anti-squat" that locks the rear suspension under acceleration. I have one that I autocross and I eventually swapped in the whole rear subframe from an S14, removed the rear swaybar and it really hooks up now. If I were to start over the S14 is a better platform but the looks are just too generic. You won't mistake the S13 for anything else.
They're no FC.
ReverendDexter wrote:This isn't a "learn me on" thread or a "what to buy" thread. Just curious why the S13-chassis 240SX doesn't seem to be particularly popular amongst the GRM crowd.
They're lightweight, well-balanced, IRS, the hatchback has GOBS of room, and they get decent fuel economy.
The only reason I can see the E30 eeking past it for the holy trinity is that there's a spec series for the bimmer, and maybe people are down on the KA24.
I've always liked those cars, but have just always found something else I'd rather do first. A non-enthusiast friend of mine had one of the ASC-built convertables for awhile..and even with the slushbox, after driving it for a couple of months he told me he finally understood why I cared about our sport so much. He lost his job & the thing got repo'd..they only wanted about $1K to release it, but I couldn't get it together fast enough.
RossD wrote:Do the cars weigh much?
When mine was stock I corner weighted it. Stock springs, full interior, bunch of random crap a college student with a messy car would have inside (most my text books, notebooks, extra pair of shoes, ect ect...), No driver.
LF:759 RF:769
LR:624 RR:608
Left: 1384-50.1%
Front: 1529-55.4%
Rear 1233-44.6%
Cross 1393-50.4
Total 2760
Base S13 Coupe.
The base s13 coupe with no sunroof is about as light as they get. You didn't say, but I'm guessing with 2700 lbs that was a standard trans car. The auto easily adds 150 lbs + to the car. its a heavy sunmmmabeotch transmission.
My 5spd hatch with the pop up sunroof (which is lighter than the electric variant found in most coupes) weighed in at around 2900 lbs, IIRC, and that was with full interior. I don't remember the exact number.
I never weighed my convertible but people on the vert forums were reporting curb weights of 3100 lbs (or more, depending on drivetrain swaps).
