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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Noobie engine build question for the vw experts

June 8, 2010 4:23 p.m. mrwillie Reader

Data... 1) 1994(?) VW 2L(aba) short block. 2) Gonna possibly be used in a budget( very budget... ) first timer build. 3) Going in a 1987 gti( orig. had 8v engine...) 4) Car will be used as a daily, w/ autoX and track schools when time and money allow 5) Needs to be reliable( well, vw-reliable.. ) 7) Would like to keep the existing CIS-E short term, and eventually go MS; 8) Overall, I would like the package( car and new drivetrain ) to be somewhat balanced. I don't need straight-line rocketship, but a well-manered FWD car...

I have the orig. head and block that came in the gti(8v 1.8L), I have a 1.8L solid lifter head and a few other misc. pieces, and a 2L aba short block.

I'm looking at either combining the aba and one of the heads that I already have and dropping a turbo on it or starting from scratch w/ a 9A engine. I'm not a welder, and I would rather go a route relatively painlessly easy to complete at this point. I've been back and forth on this road for awhile now, but recently I've actually been making a few hours progress a week.

So, all that being said...which dir. would the general population suggest? Not looking for a full-out race car, but mainly just trying to finish a project right now.

Please help guide the lost and confused...........
June 8, 2010 4:39 p.m. HappyJack New Reader

Putting the 1.8 head on the 2L bottom end will bump up the compression and give you more HP. Use the 1.8 distributor, and then you can use all the wiring and everthing you already have in the car. Basically all you do is swap the bottom end. Easy to do, and no modifications and it works well.
June 8, 2010 5:09 p.m. mrwillie Reader

In reply to HappyJack:

I've read a few places that that combo only gives around 120hp. Is this number close to being right? I was looking more for around 140-150. Have you run it on any of your setups?

Thanks.. Will
June 8, 2010 5:37 p.m. doc_speeder New Reader

Honestly, it's pretty tough to get 150hp out of a streetable 8v. Not likely impossible, but tough. Big cam, more compression, good exhaust may get you 130-135 though, and in a Mk2, that will feel pretty good. They are pretty torquey. On the plus side, the ABA is pretty easy to turbo, and strong enough to take some boost. CIS-E would not be your friend in this case though. You'd have to think about the MS sooner than later.
June 8, 2010 6:52 p.m. Cone_Junky Reader

The ABA block and 1.8 is a very common "hybrid" motor. Reliable and strong. It ends up with about a 10% increase in torque and HP.

You will need to either get an adaptor to use the 1.8 dizzy, or swap the relucter wheel from the 1.8 dizzy into the 2.0 dizzy. You'll also need a block off plate for the PCV drain at the block. The block is a couple of inches taller, but if you already have the dual outlet manifold and downpipe. you're fine.

My hybrid with a ported head, 5 angle valve grind, and TT 276 cam was putting 124 HP and 126 ft lbs to the wheels on CIS-E. I lost about 10 of each when I put it into a Digi II car with P/S (114/118).

It's a great swap. So much so that I transfered that engine into 3 different vehicles.
June 8, 2010 7:36 p.m. vwcorvette New Reader

I did the ABA bottom end under a cis 1.8 head. Ggrind cam and adjustable cam gear. Made 105 hp at the front wheels, 115 tq. Loved it in my 81 Scirocco. No other mods to motor. Cone Junky has probably maxed to potential with the set-up.

Turbo not suggested as to incredible compression ratio @ 11 to 1

16v head on ABA has lower compression but takes a little more work.

Do as Cone Junky has and you will not be disappointed.
June 8, 2010 8:28 p.m. CaptainSpaulding New Reader

yummy. 16v aba on motronic. Too bad I am a lazy bastard and have projects that need finished before I could ever tear that far into the golf. It needs boost. However I have no problem tearing up 020 transmissions with 100hp.(8 let alone with the amount of power that you can get out of a turbo 16v aba.

I would love a ABF under the hood.
June 9, 2010 7:00 a.m. HappyJack New Reader

Cone_Junky wrote:

You will need to either get an adaptor to use the 1.8 dizzy, or swap the relucter wheel from the 1.8 dizzy into the 2.0 dizzy. You'll also need a block off plate for the PCV drain at the block. The block is a couple of inches taller, but if you already have the dual outlet manifold and downpipe. you're fine.

I have done the swap for a circle track racer, it is a noticable difference. But I did mistakenly tell you to use the 1.8 distributor. Cone_Junky is right, you use the 2L distributor because it fits in the block better, but you swap in the relucter wheel (little metal wheel under the cap that looks like it has little windows cut in it.) from the 1.8L
June 9, 2010 10:01 a.m. 16vCorey SuperDork

If all the parts are out of the car already, the counter flow head on the ABA block is an easy swap. I wouldn't bother with the solid lifter head, unless you're planning on building something that revs to 9k, and that's not going to happen on CIS-E. If the car is a driver right now, I wouldn't bother with the ABA swap. To me it's not worth the hassle for an extra 15hp. All 8v heads have about the same volume, so you're not going to see a change in compression. No matter what combo you use, any 8v head on an ABA or an RD block is going to get you about a 10:1 compression ratio. If you want to go turbo, put a 16v head on the ABA block and megasquirt it. You'll need the intermediate shaft, oil pump, and oil pump drive gear from a 9A, but everything else bolts up. If it were me, I'd put together the easiest combo to get it running, and in the mean time build the 16v ABA and Megasquirt.
June 9, 2010 11:06 a.m. Paul_VR6 Reader

Ditto.

If your current motor 'works' I'd leave it. Build silly on the side.

If not, the ABA with your stock head makes for a good driver. I had that in my Rabbit, and it was simple and fun.
June 9, 2010 11:37 a.m. mrwillie Reader

Ok. It's been real crazy at work today, so this is the first time I've been online since yesterday. So thanks for the responses...

I was orig. gonna do the ABA counterflow(1.8 rd head w/ aba shortblock) swap, but I figured that since I was swapping the orig. engine out anyway why not drop in one w/ more potential? So I was leaning towards the 9A(16v 2L), but I haven't had alot of time ( or money ) over the last few months. Now I'm at the point where if I don't make major progress soon, the car may be on the selling block. Which brings me here today...

1) I have the aba dist and exhaust mani w/ downpipe, but need the block-off plate, head gasket and hoses to start putting the engine back together. Having never done this b/4 its alittle intimidating. What other parts would you have on hand for re-assembly?

2) I spun a bearing in the orig. engine, thanks to a dented oil pan( done by PO, unbeknownest to me). How good are my chances that the head is usable, and if not would an aba head work using the existing CIS-E if I swap the injector cups out?

3) Is this block usable w/o going to a machine shop( and no, the pics aren't hotlinked... ) http://www.flickr.com/photos/teamrouse/sets/72157624238681460/

I would prefer not to goto a machine shop for anything, but if I have to I have to.

Thanks again........ W-
June 9, 2010 2:56 p.m. Paul_VR6 Reader

ABA's are pretty stout, and I have put many in without doing anything to them.. at all.. unless abusing them afterward counts. It would be nice if you could do a compression test but that might have to wait until after assembly.

Going into a Mk2 you're lucky as that whole exhaust setup works.

If you have the distro swap the trigger wheel from your old 'un into the ABA. Start with the old one to get the hang of disassembly.

Your head should be fine unless you ran it out of oil for a good while.

No good way to use the ABA head with CIS of any kind without some fabrication.

I've done some 9a swaps but they're getting pretty beat as of late. The last two needed machine work (warped heads, and one needed exhaust valves).
June 9, 2010 6:51 p.m. vwcorvette New Reader

Check the TecTonics web-site. I got my swap kit from them with all the parts needed to do the Distributor, block off, etc. dist parts
June 9, 2010 10:21 p.m. mrwillie Reader

First of all...thank you. This board never ceases to amaze me.

I feel better now. It feels doable now. I'm gonna start ordering parts tomorrow. I bought a oil pan baffle, and replaced the pump and pan.Gonna order the motor mounts first. I'm gonna use the hydraulic head b/c I never found a good source for the shims for the solid head. Gonna do a DIY gasket match on the head and have three studs that need to be drilled out. I've tried and didn't do a good job. Is there an easy way to remove the valve guides and springs if I wanted to do alittle dremel work? Nothing major, just round a few corners.

Time for bed....and thanks again. Will
June 10, 2010 7:54 a.m. Paul_VR6 Reader

You can rent an overhead valve spring compressor at almost any parts store these days. If you're taking the valves out to do deeper head work you might want to have new guides installed once you're done and think about getting a valve job... you don't have to get one just think about it. If you don't want to do that, remember to mark all the valve locations and lap them in for reinstall.
June 10, 2010 8:50 a.m. mrwillie Reader

I've been to at least autozone, and they don't have the valve spring compressor that will work for the vw head. Or maybe I couldn't see how it would work. Since the vw has recessed springs, the compressor that I was shown wouldn't work. I actually bought a used "C-clamp" compressor, but couldn't make it work.

I found this..... http://www.pureluckdesign.com/vw/vsc/index.htm

but had trouble making it. Anybody wanna make a few bucks and throw something together for me?
June 10, 2010 9:39 a.m. Paul_VR6 Reader

This isn't the one I have but close:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=overhead+valve+spring+compressor&oe=u...

As long as it's that style it should work.

The C clamp style ones should work if you have the head off. I have one I use all the time.
June 10, 2010 10:02 a.m. angusmf Reader

I have a valve spring compressor you can use.
June 10, 2010 11:34 a.m. mrwillie Reader

In reply to angusmf:

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