NOOOOO - Government Considers Brake Override System

http://www.detnews.com/article/20100302/AUTO01/3020398/Government-considers-brake-override-system-for-all-new-vehicles#ixzz0h2adHGA5

Bye bye heel and toe, left foot braking, etc. WRITE YOUR CONGRESSMAN!

I'm building my own car. No new cars for me after 2012. (FMVSS 126 - pretty much will require cars to pass a handling test where 99% of them will need ESC to pass it), now this. Get the government out of my cars!

(Sorry, I'm sick today and in a really bad mood, and this popped up in my email...)

You need to know that this isn't the governments fault. It's OEMs. They have shown that at least one or more are not responsible enough to use technology correctly, and the general public wants the govenment to do something about it.

All of the industry is guilty of pushing some new law so that the intention of previously passed laws are not circumvented.

Just sayn.

BTW, it's not the end of heel/toe, but you'll have to see more creative solutions like Nissan is allegedly doing.

Eric

Start hoarding the cool cars now!
Seems like a good time to put a few Miatas in storage for the long haul.
Fun, playfull cars are over as we know it.

jrw1621 wrote: Start hoarding the cool cars now! Seems like a good time to put a few Miatas in storage for the long haul. Fun, playfull cars are over as we know it.

I remember people saying the same thing in the late 70's. Yet now cars are at least 5 seconds faster to 60, and handle a WHOLE lot better. The death of convertibles was on the horizon, 10 years prior to the first of many Miatas.

Lets not get out of hand here.

Who wants to start the GRM Car Corporation? Minimal electronic gadgets (only to run the car and maybe play tunes, and illuminate stuff) that don't drive the car for you? You must sign a waiver when buying the car that states you understand you can't put the car in cruise control and go to sleep, physics still governs vehicle behavior, cell phones and navigation systems will distract you, and you must actually DRIVE the car.

I want to drive cars, not have them drive me.

(As stated before sick me = bad mood.)

However, Miata (traditional), Miata Coupe, Miata Sedan, and Miata Off-Roader will probably end up being the cars made. And P71's and E30's of course.

CGLockRacer wrote: Who wants to start the GRM Car Corporation?

It kinda exists already. I haven't done a lot of in-depth research, but I like what I'm seeing from these crazies. Local Motors

Actually, I'd be far more concerned by the installation of the 'event data recorders' than the installation of a brake override.

alfadriver wrote: I remember people saying the same thing in the late 70's. Yet now cars are at least 5 seconds faster to 60, and handle a WHOLE lot better. The death of convertibles was on the horizon, 10 years prior to the first of many Miatas. Lets not get out of hand here.

It goes back longer than that. I bet the average GRM forum member would be one of those people in 1964 who were bemoaning the new 911 as a bloated, large, over luxurious grand tourer replacing the last real pure sports car from Porsche the 356.

I thought the "black box" had been around for a while, suprised it didn't come up in the past. As for brake override, I'm sure someone can re-program to get rid of it.

The idea of the black box has, but they aren't mandatory IIRC. Some insurer in the UK was trying to get customers to install them in exchange for supposedly cheaper pay as you go insurance but that didn't go past the trial stage.

The world will build a bigger idiot. You cannot engineer around stupid.

I feel like the future of car tuning is going to require a lot of computer reprogramming.

In reply to CGLockRacer:

Audi/VW already has similiar systems in their Tiptronic and CVT transmissions. Power braking will throw the system into a limp home mode.

But I can see this really screwwing up the fun of a manual transmission. Unfortunately after the surgeons rebuilt my feet, I am not capable of the angles required to heel-toe. Hooray for motorcycles... So no loss for me anyway.

BoxheadTim wrote: Actually, I'd be far more concerned by the installation of the 'event data recorders' than the installation of a brake override.

Black boxes are dangerous simply because inputs to the box could either 1) be faked, 2) be inconsistent with ACTUAL driver inputs, especially if in say the drive by wire system (throttle or steering) there is a malfunction which indicates the driver went left when he/she actually steered right or attempted to deccelerate when the box shows an acceleration. The difference being steering left and accelerating looks like the driver intentionally caused a fatal accident vs actually steering right and attempting to slow down to prevent it, but the box doesn't lie so it must be accurate. Insurance companies and the law will all use these to have irrefutable proof in the event of an accident, except that they will not be infallable.

Case in point, would you want the same electrical engineer who designed the ECU throttle/brake system in your Yota designing and integrating a black box which will ultimatley proove whether or not you committed vehicular manslaughter and get sentanced to 8 years in jail?

I'm sure it's not the end of fun cars - but they will end up heavier, more expensive and with more processors than before - just wondering - if you have to have the override system - does that actually end up forcing you to have throttle by wire??? By the stats in the article, this comes out to events that affected .0000173% of the population dictating the technology the other 99.9999827% could be required to buy (if you want a new vehicle).

alfadriver wrote:

jrw1621 wrote: Start hoarding the cool cars now! Seems like a good time to put a few Miatas in storage for the long haul. Fun, playfull cars are over as we know it.

I remember people saying the same thing in the late 70's. Yet now cars are at least 5 seconds faster to 60, and handle a WHOLE lot better. The death of convertibles was on the horizon, 10 years prior to the first of many Miatas. Lets not get out of hand here.

I think it really is over this time. This isn't the end of big engines. This is the end of handling after the end of smallness after the end of lightness after the end of affordability after the end of big engines.

They do stop on a dime, I'll give 'em that.

So yeah I'll second that this is the last nail in the coffin of affordable, fun cars. The only way out of this charlie-foxtrot is a change in materials and construction - CF body panels, chromoly space frames, etc. and it's an uphill race against tightening safety regulations, so we may never see another Miata or AE86.

autoxrs wrote: The world will build a bigger idiot. You cannot engineer around stupid.

Well said

Here's a partial list of Event Data Recorder (EDR / Black Box) equipped vehicles: http://www.harristechnical.com/downloads/cdrlist.pdf

oddly enough, 2001-2006 Rangers had them, but my 2007 Ranger appears free from the disease...

Also looking through the years it seems Ford may have done an about face in 2007/8 time frame and started reducing the number of vehicles equipped with it...

I'm for it, as long as it shuts off when I turn off traction control.

This is just more of the same nanny state mentality that's ruining the country. Oh well, one more reason to drive an old car - as long as they "let" me.

The real issue I have is a matter of scale. How many people have died over 10 years in unintended acceleration issues like this? 52. How far down the list of accidental deaths is that? I'm pretty certain its not in the top 100. More people die from misuse of buckets. Why doesn't that have tighter legislation? Why not legislate better driver training? People should know how to control a vehicle with a stuck throttle - it should be taught and then trained into people - not legislated away.

No, no, no. You can't be proactive about about these issues. Besides that might indicate that the government isn't being as effective as they could be and it might unduly inconvenience a voter when they can't pass the new tests. Instead, try to be reactive and placate the masses by legislating the wrong things in the wrong way so that the companies the lobbyists work for can continue contributing to your campaign fund.

The people think you did something beneficial.

The companies helped write the bill so they can wriggle out of it.

The companies also look like they did something by supporting the bill.

The people want safer cars, so they'll trade in their now "unsafe" cars to buy new ones to feel safe.

The companies benefit by selling more vehicles.

Everyone wins!

What exactly is a brake override system? I'm inclined to think it's my right foot, but the article doesn't say.

http://www.nissantsuru.com.mx/

Solution.