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NickD
NickD PowerDork
6/10/19 1:42 p.m.

Yeah, I know, "Ugh, more drifting content" but I enjoy it, and this was pretty cool. This weekend was Formula Drift New Jersey at Wall Stadium Speedway in Wall, NJ and I went down to spectate. On Friday, during qualifying, Justin Pawlak went out and laid down a perfect qualifying run in his Falken Tires/Roush Performance Mustang. 100 points out of a possible 100. In Formula Drift's 16 years of existence, this is only the second time this has happened. The last time was back in 2008 with Tanner Foust at Sedona Raceway (Fun fact: Tanner Foust and Sedona Raceway are no longer a part of FD), and the judges have said that the sport and judging standards has evolved so much that if Tanner were to make that same run in today's competition, it would only be in the low-to-mid 80s. So this is technically the first true 100-point score. Over the past two years, there have been a handful of 99 point scores, and everyone was thinking that likely no one would ever get another 100-pointer on principle. So when I watched Justin go out and lay down this run, it looked damn fine but I was thinking it would be a 98 or 99 point run. And then the 100 point score flashed up and the crowd went nuts

 

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Ffacebook%2Fvideos%2F347467432630889%2F&width=500&show_text=false&height=281

Rusnak_322
Rusnak_322 Dork
6/10/19 2:01 p.m.

The problem with FD is, you have someone like me, a long time car guy. I cant discern the difference between a 100 and a 85 score. I am not a fan of something that you cant tell who wins without input from the judges.

_
_ HalfDork
6/10/19 2:03 p.m.

This  is how the whole sport should be judged. Proximity markers. And it should be done tandems. And it needs to be an entire lap. And there should be a displacement cap, no more than 4.0L. 

This is how I see the world. Bring it back to grassroots. If the average guy can’t afford it, it’s not allowed. These sports are always about “connecting with fans”. 

HTF am I supposed to connect with some guy that is backed by a large company and didn’t build his own car in his own garage and has over six figures into it? 

Personally, I would love to see drifting done on a budget. Assemble your team, you can spend 10k, it must be completed in a week. Drift on Saturday. Finals on Sunday. 

NickD
NickD PowerDork
6/10/19 2:04 p.m.

My friend isn't a car guy, and he has only gone to one FD event before this, and he saw this run and even he could tell that this run was something special. Before the event kicks off, the judges do a pretty good job of what they want to see from drivers and explain where the inner and outer clipping points are, as well as zones, and where drivers should be accelerating and decelerating. If you watch an event, the difference between what would be an 85-point qualifier and a 100-point qualifier is pretty stark. Now when you get down to 95 points versus 100 points, it can be tough to discern. 

NickD
NickD PowerDork
6/10/19 2:11 p.m.
_ said:

And it should be done tandems. And it needs to be an entire lap. And there should be a displacement cap, no more than 4.0L. 

This is how I see the world. Bring it back to grassroots. If the average guy can’t afford it, it’s not allowed. These sports are always about “connecting with fans”. 

HTF am I supposed to connect with some guy that is backed by a large company and didn’t build his own car in his own garage and has over six figures into it? 

Personally, I would love to see drifting done on a budget. Assemble your team, you can spend 10k, it must be completed in a week. Drift on Saturday. Finals on Sunday. 

I'm not sure what effect a displacement cap would have on things. Chelsea Denofa's Mustang with a 410 cubic inch V8 is one of the lower-powered cars in the grid, at around 750hp. Justin Pawlak's supercharged 5.0L makes 900-1000hp but you also have 3.4L 2JZs making 900hp, VR38DETTs making 1000hp and Fredric Aasbo has a 2.7L 2AR 4-cylinder making 1000-1200hp.

And there are plenty of lower, more grassroots drift sanctioning bodies and events out there. FD is the premier series, so of course the cars are going to be faster and more outrageous. And I've gone to plenty of grassroots drift events, and guess what, they are often boring. A bunch of guys in 300hp beat-to-death 240SXs who can barely make a lap without a spin, let alone have any sort of proximity is not that enjoyable to me.

ShawnG
ShawnG PowerDork
6/10/19 2:12 p.m.

In reply to Rusnak_322 :

It's like figure skating or that ribbon-onna-stick thing in the olympics.

jharry3
jharry3 Reader
6/10/19 2:19 p.m.

I finally figured out which sport Drifting resembles: Curling  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQeLGqBfcs

_
_ HalfDork
6/10/19 2:24 p.m.
NickD said:
_ said:

And it should be done tandems. And it needs to be an entire lap. And there should be a displacement cap, no more than 4.0L. 

This is how I see the world. Bring it back to grassroots. If the average guy can’t afford it, it’s not allowed. These sports are always about “connecting with fans”. 

HTF am I supposed to connect with some guy that is backed by a large company and didn’t build his own car in his own garage and has over six figures into it? 

Personally, I would love to see drifting done on a budget. Assemble your team, you can spend 10k, it must be completed in a week. Drift on Saturday. Finals on Sunday. 

I'm not sure what effect a displacement cap would have on things. Chelsea Denofa's Mustang with a 410 cubic inch V8 is one of the lower-powered cars in the grid, at around 750hp. Justin Pawlak's supercharged 5.0L makes 900-1000hp but you also have 3.4L 2JZs making 900hp, VR38DETTs making 1000hp and Fredric Aasbo has a 2.7L 2AR 4-cylinder making 1000-1200hp.

And there are plenty of lower, more grassroots drift sanctioning bodies and events out there. FD is the premier series, so of course the cars are going to be faster and more outrageous. And I've gone to plenty of grassroots drift events, and guess what, they are often boring. A bunch of guys in 300hp beat-to-death 240SXs who can barely make a lap without a spin, let alone have any sort of proximity is not that enjoyable to me.

Ok, now imagine those same 300hp death traps in the hands of capable drivers. The sport was ruined when it became about horsepower. The sport was not created from the amount of horsepower a car had, it was created due to a LACK OF IT. What are the Japanese doing? Ls swaps? Nope. 1,000hp? Nope. Billion dollar company backing? Nope. 

I train bonsai trees. It’s a Japanese art. Originating in China, but popularized (and perfected) in japan. I’m an American. Now, I could adapt American styling to bonsai, but it would completely ruin a tree, and many would be appalled, claiming it looks like nothing more than a bad day with the landscaper. Deviation from an art form generally doesn’t produce better results. Formula D in America is simply Hollywood applies to drifting. 

johndej
johndej HalfDork
6/10/19 2:25 p.m.
NickD
NickD PowerDork
6/10/19 2:26 p.m.
_ said:
NickD said:
_ said:

And it should be done tandems. And it needs to be an entire lap. And there should be a displacement cap, no more than 4.0L. 

This is how I see the world. Bring it back to grassroots. If the average guy can’t afford it, it’s not allowed. These sports are always about “connecting with fans”. 

HTF am I supposed to connect with some guy that is backed by a large company and didn’t build his own car in his own garage and has over six figures into it? 

Personally, I would love to see drifting done on a budget. Assemble your team, you can spend 10k, it must be completed in a week. Drift on Saturday. Finals on Sunday. 

I'm not sure what effect a displacement cap would have on things. Chelsea Denofa's Mustang with a 410 cubic inch V8 is one of the lower-powered cars in the grid, at around 750hp. Justin Pawlak's supercharged 5.0L makes 900-1000hp but you also have 3.4L 2JZs making 900hp, VR38DETTs making 1000hp and Fredric Aasbo has a 2.7L 2AR 4-cylinder making 1000-1200hp.

And there are plenty of lower, more grassroots drift sanctioning bodies and events out there. FD is the premier series, so of course the cars are going to be faster and more outrageous. And I've gone to plenty of grassroots drift events, and guess what, they are often boring. A bunch of guys in 300hp beat-to-death 240SXs who can barely make a lap without a spin, let alone have any sort of proximity is not that enjoyable to me.

Ok, now imagine those same 300hp death traps in the hands of capable drivers. 

Less angle, less speed, less tire smoke. Less interesting. That's what FD was 10-12 years ago, and if you go back and watch it, it's not that interesting. A "close battle" meant that driver's were within 5-6 car lengths of each other. Now you have drivers literally flexing each other's door panels.

_
_ HalfDork
6/10/19 2:37 p.m.
NickD said:
_ said:
NickD said:
_ said:

And it should be done tandems. And it needs to be an entire lap. And there should be a displacement cap, no more than 4.0L. 

This is how I see the world. Bring it back to grassroots. If the average guy can’t afford it, it’s not allowed. These sports are always about “connecting with fans”. 

HTF am I supposed to connect with some guy that is backed by a large company and didn’t build his own car in his own garage and has over six figures into it? 

Personally, I would love to see drifting done on a budget. Assemble your team, you can spend 10k, it must be completed in a week. Drift on Saturday. Finals on Sunday. 

I'm not sure what effect a displacement cap would have on things. Chelsea Denofa's Mustang with a 410 cubic inch V8 is one of the lower-powered cars in the grid, at around 750hp. Justin Pawlak's supercharged 5.0L makes 900-1000hp but you also have 3.4L 2JZs making 900hp, VR38DETTs making 1000hp and Fredric Aasbo has a 2.7L 2AR 4-cylinder making 1000-1200hp.

And there are plenty of lower, more grassroots drift sanctioning bodies and events out there. FD is the premier series, so of course the cars are going to be faster and more outrageous. And I've gone to plenty of grassroots drift events, and guess what, they are often boring. A bunch of guys in 300hp beat-to-death 240SXs who can barely make a lap without a spin, let alone have any sort of proximity is not that enjoyable to me.

Ok, now imagine those same 300hp death traps in the hands of capable drivers. 

Less angle, less speed, less tire smoke. Less interesting. That's what FD was 10-12 years ago, and if you go back and watch it, it's not that interesting. A "close battle" meant that driver's were within 5-6 car lengths of each other. Now you have drivers literally flexing each other's door panels.

And drifting was never about those things.  It was never about tire smoke, or angle, or speed for that matter. The people that are bored by real, actual Japanese drifting are the same people that can only go to NASCAR races to watch the drivers burn, or go see a WWE wrestling match. Finesse, culture, insight.  If you can’t stand watching a ballet, if you think bonsai trees are stupid, Then the art of drifting is not for you. Find a different sport.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
6/10/19 2:37 p.m.
jharry3 said:

I finally figured out which sport Drifting resembles: Curling  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiQeLGqBfcs

Uh, Curling is not a judged sport like drifting, gymnastics, diving, and figure skating are.

Curling may be a slow sport, but scoring points is very well defined, like baseball.  Or horseshoes.

gencollon
gencollon New Reader
6/10/19 2:37 p.m.

That was awesome!

Chelsea Denofa has some good content showing how the judging works.... 

https://youtu.be/_yAseVw7kIY?list=PLEoTYw_iXSquFvz7DR_IGeLDKFAAuGy4g

Formula Drift is much more of a race than people seem to think. The teams know it though, which is why every car has ~1000 hp. If the lead car has the power and grip to drive away from the chase car... it's gonna win the battle. Drifting is racing first. If nobody wins the race, then the judges come in to decide who drove better (on the prescribed line, smoother, with more angle)

 

Just watch Chelsea's videos.

NickD
NickD PowerDork
6/10/19 2:42 p.m.
_ said:
NickD said:
_ said:
NickD said:
_ said:

And it should be done tandems. And it needs to be an entire lap. And there should be a displacement cap, no more than 4.0L. 

This is how I see the world. Bring it back to grassroots. If the average guy can’t afford it, it’s not allowed. These sports are always about “connecting with fans”. 

HTF am I supposed to connect with some guy that is backed by a large company and didn’t build his own car in his own garage and has over six figures into it? 

Personally, I would love to see drifting done on a budget. Assemble your team, you can spend 10k, it must be completed in a week. Drift on Saturday. Finals on Sunday. 

I'm not sure what effect a displacement cap would have on things. Chelsea Denofa's Mustang with a 410 cubic inch V8 is one of the lower-powered cars in the grid, at around 750hp. Justin Pawlak's supercharged 5.0L makes 900-1000hp but you also have 3.4L 2JZs making 900hp, VR38DETTs making 1000hp and Fredric Aasbo has a 2.7L 2AR 4-cylinder making 1000-1200hp.

And there are plenty of lower, more grassroots drift sanctioning bodies and events out there. FD is the premier series, so of course the cars are going to be faster and more outrageous. And I've gone to plenty of grassroots drift events, and guess what, they are often boring. A bunch of guys in 300hp beat-to-death 240SXs who can barely make a lap without a spin, let alone have any sort of proximity is not that enjoyable to me.

Ok, now imagine those same 300hp death traps in the hands of capable drivers. 

Less angle, less speed, less tire smoke. Less interesting. That's what FD was 10-12 years ago, and if you go back and watch it, it's not that interesting. A "close battle" meant that driver's were within 5-6 car lengths of each other. Now you have drivers literally flexing each other's door panels.

And drifting was never about those things.  It was never about tire smoke, or angle, or speed for that matter. The people that are bored by real, actual Japanese drifting are the same people that can only go to NASCAR races to watch the drivers burn, or go see a WWE wrestling match. Finesse, culture, insight.  If you can’t stand watching a ballet, if you think bonsai trees are stupid, Then the art of drifting is not for you. Find a different sport.

I don't watch NASCAR period, nor am I interested in WWE. But, please, continue to make assumptions about me.

Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
6/10/19 2:49 p.m.

Lower speed and lower power drifting is still a thing in the US. Lots of sub 300hp cars on kart tracks and small skid pads. A lot of lower level competitive drifting is even pretty tame as far as cars go.

They also still do the batE36 M3 big power cars in Japan too, just everyone seems to forget that when these arguments come up. That battle between a RWD converted Murcielago and an LFA with a Nascar motor? Yeah that happened in Japan.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
6/10/19 2:53 p.m.
_ said:And drifting was never about those things.  It was never about tire smoke, or angle, or speed for that matter. The people that are bored by real, actual Japanese drifting are the same people that can only go to NASCAR races to watch the drivers burn, or go see a WWE wrestling match. Finesse, culture, insight.  If you can’t stand watching a ballet, if you think bonsai trees are stupid, Then the art of drifting is not for you. Find a different sport.

I'm confused; you're the one complaining about how drifting is, then tells someone to "find a different sport?" Sounds like you should be finding a different sport...

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
6/10/19 2:57 p.m.

Oh good, this has gone as well as I expected.

STM317
STM317 UltraDork
6/10/19 2:58 p.m.

Any activity at a "Pro" level means people are doing it to make as much money as they can, and that means entertaining as many people as possible. Lamenting that fact or acting like those who would dare be entertained by such low brow stuff are beneath you is never going to change that fact. It's like fans of a band getting upset when a band makes it big and finds mainstream success by "selling out", like they wouldn't do the exact same thing if the roles were reversed.

 

As for that run, it looked pretty flawless to my untrained eye. That's a guy doing choreographed dancing with a purpose built, 1000hp car. There's art there, you just have to look through the tire smoke.

iceracer
iceracer UltimaDork
6/10/19 2:59 p.m.

In reply to NickD :

NASCAR drivers do pretty good at making smoke.

If they win or spin out

NickD
NickD PowerDork
6/10/19 3:01 p.m.
Daylan C said:

Lower speed and lower power drifting is still a thing in the US. Lots of sub 300hp cars on kart tracks and small skid pads. A lot of lower level competitive drifting is even pretty tame as far as cars go.

They also still do the batE36 M3 big power cars in Japan too, just everyone seems to forget that when these arguments come up. That battle between a RWD converted Murcielago and an LFA with a Nascar motor? Yeah that happened in Japan.

Yeah, the guys in 300hp S13s and ~200hp AE86s is just one facet of Japanese drifting. I can't remember the exact area of Japan, but those guys are just all about 500-800hp big-body cars, like JZX100 Chasers

GTXVette
GTXVette UltraDork
6/10/19 3:33 p.m.

I Can't Do It,  I tried, My Brain Will NOT let ME, at the Exact Moment If Not Before, that my CAR Is spinning tires Or Begining To slide....... EVERY Sense, Muscle , Hand finger arm or Leg and Foot Does What Ever it Takes and In As Little time as Possible , to STOP said slide or spinning tire. and no, Power sliding on a dirt track my look similar but is not the Same.

It could However Be entertaining to see 20 of 'em at once on a Figure 8 track for a 20 lap Feature.

   

_
_ HalfDork
6/10/19 3:33 p.m.

It needed to be said. Don’t take it as a personal attack. But drifting in the USA is what it is today because of the “Hollywood” effect. You want fast and furious? Or Steve McQueen’s “Lemans”? Both about cars. Technically both about racing. But we all know which one is closer to what is real, and factual. The other is glamorized. I knew bringing this up would cause debate. I’m glad I did. The uninformed need informed. 

T.J.
T.J. MegaDork
6/10/19 3:33 p.m.

I'm not much of a fan of drifting, but those guys can do amazing things when it comes to car control. If there is a video embedded in the first post, I can't see it.

EDIT: just watched it on Youtube. To me, it seems like a waste of tires and the slow way around the course, but that's just me. Crazy to see how much steering angle his front wheels can go to, but I suspect that is something all the pro drift cars do.

NickD
NickD PowerDork
6/10/19 3:36 p.m.
_ said:

It needed to be said. Don’t take it as a personal attack. But drifting in the USA is what it is today because of the “Hollywood” effect. You want fast and furious? Or Steve McQueen’s “Lemans”? Both about cars. Technically both about racing. But we all know which one is closer to what is real, and factual. The other is glamorized. I knew bringing this up would cause debate. I’m glad I did. The uninformed need informed. 

But it's not just the US. Look at the IDC, or Driftmasters European Drift Championship, or D1NZ, or D1GP. They are all running high power, lightweight cars with insane steering angle.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
6/10/19 3:41 p.m.

Take away FD's hight HP, crazy angles and tire smoke, you have poorly driven autocross. 

Take away F1's crazy HP, aero and multi million dollar budgets, you have club racing. 

Why anyone would care what other people do with their hobby/money/time/job, is beyond me. 

If you don't like it, don't watch. Bashing what someone else likes to watch just makes you a shiny happy person.  

 

Edited to add:

The proper response here is: 

Cool! Thanks for sharing. 

A snippet about your experience with something similar or the same. 

Or nothing at all and move on. 

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