BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
3/5/10 11:16 p.m.

... but with GRM intent!

So, we have all seen the excellent Shell-Ferrari commercial...

This one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iItzJc-NHI4

At about :14 we see what I belive to be Ascari's Ferrari. I have been wondering what makes that peculiar sound that, what seems to be only this car had? You know the sound, that odd Stereo quack sound this car had.

I was thinking about it, and all I can come up with is possibly split headers with runners set up to coinside with the exaust pulses of the engine to create almost a "Stereo" exaust note. But obviously, they have to come together somewhere, as that car has only one exaust pipe in the end...

So, anyone want to tell me how wrong I've got it, and set me straight?

pres589
pres589 Reader
3/5/10 11:32 p.m.

Ascari was killed in a 750 Monza, which wasn't shown here, so I guess you mean the car that Ascari often won with.

In the movie the same care seems to be used for the first ~20 seconds. I think that's this same type of car;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Tipo_500

Four cylinders, a pair of Webers that are probably too big to idle smoothly, and very open everything would probably lead to some interesting noises.

oldtin
oldtin Reader
3/5/10 11:33 p.m.

crank design? Advertisers aren't beyond tweaking audio tracks either.

porksboy
porksboy Dork
3/5/10 11:34 p.m.

You mean on trailing throttle? Cool sound.

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
3/5/10 11:40 p.m.

Ive heard the sound elsewhere, but possible Oldtin.

Pres, Im just assuming. Im trying to figure out who drove the #5 back then now. And I'd agree that it would sound interesting, but to me such a distinct sound wouldnt come from that, If its real at all.

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
3/5/10 11:43 p.m.

More info on that car-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_Tipo_500

Edit- More: http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/fer500.htm

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 Dork
3/6/10 12:42 a.m.

off-topic of ferrari but on topic of Italian exhaust notes. Doesn't Lamborghini spend an extensive amount of time tuning their exhaust notes to be that of a Siren?

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
3/6/10 12:52 a.m.

http://www.conceptcarz.com/view/photo/179208,13174,0,0/photo.aspx

4-into-1 with reallllly long runners.

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
3/6/10 12:57 a.m.

OldTin-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gLOzKkP-CQ&feature=related

Nah, they all seem to have the sound

92dxman
92dxman Reader
3/6/10 8:23 a.m.

Filming in Times Square: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6BU9hH86CA&feature=fvw

P71
P71 SuperDork
3/6/10 8:37 a.m.

I believe it's from the crank layout. Ferrari uses a flat-plane crank which alters the piston strokes and firing orders and that would create a "unique" sound. The Maserati version of modern Ferrari engines have "normal" cranks which is why they sound different.

pres589
pres589 Reader
3/6/10 8:41 a.m.

In reply to P71:

We're talking about a car with an inline-four. While it may be a 180* crank, or they could use something else, this isn't about V8's and the somewhat unique wail they're given by a flat-plane crankshaft.

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
3/6/10 8:58 a.m.

yes, ferrari's flat plane crank puts the firing pulses "in order" from 1 to 4, 1 to 8, or 1 to 12 depending on the engine. I have heard that the exhaust note of the flat plane fours is rather unpleasant (flatuating cow in a bucket was the description) but the rest are pure music.

I also found in watching that commercial, but until the time they went to the modern car.. the exhaust notes made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
3/6/10 9:10 a.m.

If by "flat plane" you mean if you put the crank on a table it would lay flat on it, My MG had that too.

Mad- Totally right. Theres a ghost in the machines up to that point that is gone.

erohslc
erohslc Reader
3/6/10 10:45 a.m.

Folks, I believe you will find that all inline 4's have a 'flat' crank.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim HalfDork
3/6/10 11:19 a.m.

Anybody know where the part on the elevated section was filmed? Hong Kong?

stroker
stroker Reader
3/6/10 11:27 a.m.

If I had a car that sounded like the third one (circa 1970) I'd never drive anything else...

pres589
pres589 Reader
3/6/10 11:38 a.m.
erohslc wrote: Folks, I believe you will find that *all* inline 4's have a 'flat' crank.

Yamaha R1 for 2009 doesn't. Power delivery basically emulates a VFR's V4.

stafford1500
stafford1500 New Reader
3/6/10 1:43 p.m.

In reply to BobOfTheFuture:

I have found a few bits of free-ware out on the web that allow you to 'tune' an exhaust system. One of the outputs is a frequency response for the particular rpm in question. The ones I have seen are for 2-cycle engines, but I suppose you could try to tweak it for 4-cycle stuff as well. I had the thought of trying to tune an exhaust so it sounds like a frod flathead at idle and something more Italian at speed...

GlennS
GlennS Dork
3/6/10 1:49 p.m.

Its official

Wings are ugly, downforce is bs.

Need more torpedo style race cars.

That is all.

stroker
stroker Reader
3/6/10 2:03 p.m.
GlennS wrote: Its official Wings are ugly, downforce is bs. Need more torpedo style race cars. That is all.

From your keys to Bernie's eyes...

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
4/9/10 12:06 a.m.

Ive done some more looking into it, and I was totally off.

What brought me to ask the question in the first place was one night, driving my SVTF I heard the exaust note bouncing off a wall, and I heard a little of the "Quack". First thing in my head was "Wow! just like in the shell comercial!" So... Well... Who wouldnt want more of that?

I did research into the car, and its engine. The Tipo 500 had an almost 2 liter inline 4, stroke longer then its bore (wasnt a "square" engine) and made about 185 Hp at 7500 rpm. As the pic i posted above showed, the exaust was a tuned 4-into-1 header into a straight pipe.

as comparison the SVT here has a 2 liter inline 4, similar bore and stroke, makes "170" hp at 7000 rpm. The exaust is a tuned 4-2-1 through a fairly high flow cat, and, on my car, into a 2.75 in exaust w/ a high flow magnaflow muffler.

I can see how I get a similar sound (from 3500-4000 rpm, trailing or light throttle), the motors are pretty alike.

In conclusion, I betcha I am as close as I will get w/o an open exaust. Just figured you guys would be interested in what I found.

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
4/9/10 12:10 a.m.

Also makes me wonder what kind of noise you could get out of one of these engines. Betcha a Zetec Locost could be fun.

Treb
Treb Reader
4/9/10 8:54 a.m.
mad_machine wrote: yes, ferrari's flat plane crank puts the firing pulses "in order" from 1 to 4, 1 to 8, or 1 to 12 depending on the engine. I have heard that the exhaust note of the flat plane fours is rather unpleasant (flatuating cow in a bucket was the description) but the rest are pure music.

No.

No matter how the crank was shaped, that firing order would vibrate like crazy. (Depending on how you count 1-8 or 1-12, it would either fire from front to back, sequentially, and make the engine rock front-to-back, or it would go 'round the engine bay in a circle, and shake the motor in a circle.) The point of the flat-plane crank on a V8 is that it makes the power pulses perfectly even. There is one cylinder firing every 90 degrees of crank rotation, and it alternates between banks every time. Each bank functions like a 4-cylinder, with power pulses coming from the other bank of the motor smoothing out the spaces between its own.

Here is the firing order plaque for a 308.

The firing order runs vertically, at the lower left corner of the tag.

Each bank fires in a 1-3-4-2 order, alternating banks.

A ferrari V-12 doesn't have a flat-plane crank, and it, too, acts like two inline motors.

Here's the firing order for a v-12:

Each bank fires 1-5-3-6-2-4. The crank's journals are separated by 120 degrees

Each bank has a balanced firing order, each of the 4 exhausts has a balanced firing order. It's mechanically pretty cool, but even better, it's smooth. I like motors in general, but V-12s I love.

The ferrari 4s sound pretty rough at idle -- but they're full-on race motors, with huge carbs and huge cams. At full throttle, they sound awesome.

BobOfTheFuture
BobOfTheFuture Reader
4/9/10 3:50 p.m.

Very very cool. Thanks for the, esp the order card.

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