OK, What did we decide on Boxsters?

Specifically a 2001 S? Any owners or previous owners out here with advice.

someone really really needs to come up with an easy kit to swap in a subi engine for when the original engine explodes.

icaneat50eggs wrote: someone really really needs to come up with an easy kit to swap in a subi engine for when the original engine explodes.

There's no easy place to put the starter.

The interweb wisdom says they will all self destruct 30 minutes after you bring one home. Reality says not so much - maybe in 5-10% range for IMS bearing failure. For the worrying kind there are upgrade bearing kits, oil squirters and/or diligent & watchful maintenance. Non S are more momentum cars. S cars are a lot of fun - heavier than a go-kart feeling, but very well connected.

IMS is more of a triptonic thing as well over the manual cars that we normally buy here.

Good to know. The one in particular I am looking at is a 6 speed S with 100k. It looks like new. The only negative I see is the color combination. It's white with a gray interior. Not sure why the Germans like gray so much. I can't believe how cheap these are now.

In general they seem well loved here. I think the nose is extremely long. Why so much real estate ahead of the front wheels when there is nothing up there but a frunk? I find that part of their styling to be hideous, but don't let that stop you from buying one and driving the snot out of it with a giant grin.

This is relevant to my interests - I've wanted a 914 forever, but Boxsters are getting to be cheaper. I've been cruising CL for a nice one for the last few weeks.

I think GRM did a write up / buyers guide some time ago. May want to get the back issue.

I've decided that it's time for me to put up or shut up...

I'm buying this -

Gay Slur!

I owned a 2001 s tip for a coupes years, 2004-2006. 22000 miles and no issues. It had 39k when I traded it off. Loved it even in "auto" guise.

Maroon92 wrote: I've decided that it's time for me to put up or shut up... I'm buying this -

Cool! You are just the guy who can give us a fair assessment on these cars from a GRM perspective.

I, for one, hope that people continue to slander these fantastic little cars on the internet for a little longer and continue to drive the prices down so I can pick one up as a winter beater.

racerdave600 wrote: Specifically a 2001 S? Any owners or previous owners out here with advice.

Pick up a copy of Wayne's excellent book first (and read it) so that you have a good idea of what you can manage to do yourself.

My only Boxster experience.

Sideways hat Brodozer that works near me bought one, I would see it daily. All stock, early model, some awful wing on the rear trunk thingy, painted black stock wheels.

Brodozer would always rev up on me when we were leaving work stuck at the same light, happened 3 or 4 times in a 2 week span. I was driving my supercharged 2002 Corvette, so I don't know exactly what he was thinking. I never gave him the time of day but certainly got a chuckle. Apparently he didnt know what a boosted LS sounds like.

I hadn't seen him for a week or so, been having crappy weather so I was driving my truck every day. Finally get a nice day and we end up next to each other on a 2 lane metered on-ramp. A little tire scratch, then a little smoke, then a total yardsale of parts and oil out from under his car.

That was the last time I saw Mr. Brodozer and his Porsche.

Woody wrote:

Maroon92 wrote: I've decided that it's time for me to put up or shut up... I'm buying this -

Cool! You are just the guy who can give us a fair assessment on these cars from a GRM perspective. I, for one, hope that people continue to slander these fantastic little cars on the internet for a little longer and continue to drive the prices down so I can pick one up as a winter beater.

Well, when you can get them for Miata money, it's hard to pass it up...

I'll have a series of articles on this car, without doubt.

Any Porsche is still expensive around here. I rarely see Boxsters under $10k. The miniscule few that do show up under 10k are like this re-painted rat: http://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/4357614327.html

I inherited my dad's '00 6-speed S and just pulled it out of mothballs over the weekend. I drove it to work today. My DD is (literally, not GRM-board-speak) a '99 E36M3 and I can tell you that this car is a lot faster and better handling. I have been agonizing about whether to spend the 3K to do the IMS service, but have been convinced to run the oil test and see how good or bad it really is.

So the car is obviously amazing, but it's also a delicate POS. My M3 is like a truck. This thing is very dainty. Everything feels like it's about to break. Not that it does, but the switches feel cheap. I am also having a hard time getting used to the shifter for some reason. I also have this weird thing where the body is actually rusting through just under the passenger side air intake in the rear quarter. Apparently they can trap some water in there. This car was a DD for a few years and did see weather, but to have it rust like a '91 Civic is really annoying. Expect the usual CEL stuff you would see on any European car--it has a ton of O2 sensors. This car has 53k miles.

One other word of caution: this car brings on the class hatred like nothing I have ever driven. People HATE you when you drive one of these, even though it costs less that their used Kia. I suppose that's the state of the US right now, but still...

Search bar -> "Boxster tech tips" -> http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/tech-tips-porsche-boxster/

Charles Navarro @ LN Engineering said: There are a number of problems with the cylinder blocks in all the Porsche engines from 1997 through 2008. The block material is very brittle. The cylinders can crack or D-chunk, which means that pieces of the cylinder walls crack and break off in D-shaped pieces. One sign of this is if it looks like there’s a milk shake in the coolant tank. The worst-case scenario is the engine hydrolocks. Also, the Lokasil cylinder liner material wears out prematurely and can lead to badly scored bores. This will be evident by high oil consumption or poor results from a leak-down and compression test. Of the blocks we receive, it’s about 50/50 whether the bores are cracked or scored. If an engine lasts long enough, at 100,000 miles the bores will usually be out of round by 0.010 to 0.015 inch. A high-mileage car will be down on horsepower. Because of this, we liken the engine to a hand grenade with the pin pulled, but all of these problems are resolvable. A low-temperature thermostat is a good start and will prevent D-chunking. The complete solution to both problems, though, is sleeving the cylinders. We use an aluminum/Nikasil sleeve to keep the same metallurgy. The cooling system needs some special attention. Road debris will build up on the radiators from the back side. Remove the rear bumper and clean the rear radiator annually. Replace the water pump every 40,000 miles. The plastic impeller can come apart and clog up the capillaries in the head, causing hot spots. Aftermarket pumps are terrible—use genuine Porsche pumps only.

There's more, but that's the headline.

Let me approach this from a different perspective.

I own a 2006 Cayman S. I have enjoyed the E36 M3 out of this car for the past three years. It's paid off and my expenses have been limited to oil changes. At my last oil change, I sent a sample off to Blackstone Labs for analysis and all they found in there was oil.

If the engine were to fail this afternoon, I would do whatever it takes to get this car back on the road. If that means spending ten grand for a new engine from Porsche or Charles Navarro, I would do it. The car is that good. I don't expect it to happen, (nor do I expect everyone to have the same option) but if it did, there would be no more satisfying option out there for ten grand.

I'm not saying that these cars are perfect, but there are a lot of people out there who have been enjoying them for long periods of time without issue. The internet has a way of putting every product under such a microscope that we overthink ourselves into missing out on a lot of fun in life. Live a little.

Your mileage may vary.

In reply to Woody:

That's a fair point. Some say the reason Freud came up with the theories that he did is because he spent most of his time diagnosing crazy people, and he ended up thinking that non-crazies (read: not me) think the same way. Maybe that's why Navarro feels the way he does about wasserBoxster (ahem) engines: because he spends his time around a lot of exploded ones. Maybe the problem is not prevalent, but there's no doubting it's a substantial one when it does come up.

It's a gamble, then. One with potentially very large losses. Clearly Navarro still loves the Boxster (click the link and his endorsement is right in the opening graf). It's just a matter of whether you can live with the gamble or not.

Renegade Hybrids has an LS kit for the Boxster/Cayman S only. Because the S transmission can take it and the base can't.

In case you were wondering.

Woody wrote: Let me approach this from a different perspective..... The internet has a a way of putting *every* product under such a microscope that we overthink ourselves into missing out on a lot of fun in life. Live a little. Your mileage may vary.

How did we ever survive without the interwebs ? I rode in a Cayman S at an autox and it was a lot of fun. Porsche tax scares me, but I'd be happy with one, I think.

I'm with Woody on this one. Messageboards (present company excluded) are often places where problems are amplified by a few legitimate issues. There is also a lot of vested interests who sell things routinely spending time keeping the paranoia levels high among the types of people who fear every E36's subframe is about to fall out, or every aircooled 911 needs an immediate head job or every Tundra is about to split in half.

There are a berkeleyload more examples of these cars that didn't fail. How many of those have you heard about?

The thing about gambling is... 85-95:1 odds are berkeleying GREAT. Understand the issue. Buy well. Enjoy. (owner/racer of many an E36, a Tundra and an AC 911 that never needed anything)

My short list has a Cayman S on it, right below Exige and TR-6.

Cut and past from my comments last time we discussed M96 engines a few weeks ago in this thread http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/i-remember-when-you-could-buy-a-10-15-yo-911-for-1/79203/page1/

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Every Porsche engine over the years seems to have a ‘guaranteed will blow up and cost twice what the car is worth to fix it issue’ that soon get ironed out by the aftermarket. Mid years had thermal reactor issues, SC’s had chain tensioners that died, Carrera’s had head studs that snap, 993’s had air injection port issues etc. etc. The M96/M97 engines have the RMS and IMSB (Rear main seal and Intermediate shaft bearing). The RMS seal has been improved on and seems to be fixed and is never more than an annoyance akin to LBC’s dropping oil. The IMSB is potential a very significant issue, but you need to look past the hysteria. No doubt, if it fails in most (but not all cases) the engine is toast. The early cars had a single row bearing through some time in mid-01, then they switched to a duel row bearing from mid 01 onwards. The single row bearing seems to have about a 1% failure rate and the duel row a 4-8% failure rate. In some places I’ve seen a blanket 5%failure. In most cases if it fails the engine is toast as the intermediate shaft flays around and bits of bearings go thrashing through the engine and destroys all sorts of things. There are at least two cars on 986 forums that are still running post failure though. One in one of the Scandinavian countries that was caught just as it failed and another in Texas. The Texas car owner rebuilt the engine himself with a new shaft purchased off e-bay. As for preventing failure there seems to be several options. There is a device called the IMS Guardian which is basically a sensor in the oil prior to the filter looking for metal contamination indicating that the bearing is failing. Some people say that’s no good and my the time it warns you it’s too last. Most people plan on replacing the bearing when the clutch needs changing as once you’ve got the trans out and clutch off it’s very little extra effort to pull the flywheel and replace the bearing while you’re in there. As far as bearings are concerned. You can get a new Porsche one, get an upgrade kit from Pelican Parts for $165, or LN Engineering do an upgrade with a ceramic bearing for $650. Some people have reverse engineered the part number and sourced their own for less than $100. There are literally dozens of DIY How too’s out there. Why does it fail? There are lots of theories. The best I’ve seen is this. It’s a sealed roller bearing with a seal on each side. It goes in the end of the hollow shaft. Some people speculate that as the engine heats up the air inside the shaft expands and forces itself out through the seals. Once it cools and the air contracts it sucks air/oil back past the seals. Slowly over time that oil washes out the grease in the sealed bearing and it gradually fails. I don’t know if that’s true, but it at least has the rig of plausibility around it, supported by the fact that oil is often found inside the sealed shaft. One guy (the Texan who rebuilt his engine with a used shaft) has drilled two small holes 180deg apart between the two sets of teeth that drive the timing chains on the shaft so that nothing needs to be sucked past he seals. But that’s just a theory by one guy. General consensus seems to be Change the oil at 3-5K, use the recommended grade of oil and cut the filter open and look for debris with a magnet each time. There was also the cylinder wall ‘D’ chucking issue with the early 2.5L Boxster and 3.4 Carrera engines only, it doesn’t seem to have been an issue with the 2.7, 3.2 and 3.6L engines. IT was a casting flaw caused by the insert mold casting of the Local cylinder liners into the case. It seems to have been an early issue which caused infant mortality. I think at this point any 2.5 or 3.4L engine will have passed the danger zone, but I wouldn’t want a 5k mile garage queen. Incidentally my next door neighbor had a new 98 Boxster that suffered from this and get a new engine under warranty. There are literally hundreds of threads out there on IMSB’s on Rennlist, Pelican parts, 6speed, 986 forums etc. etc.