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mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
12/4/17 7:02 a.m.

In reply to sleepyhead :

The big thing is that we get to do the 3.1 at Cresson. That lets us run the sketchy back section that isn't usually run by cars. It's fun. 

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
12/4/17 8:42 a.m.

In reply to klodkrawler05 :

That's an S54 issue.  That motor just runs high oil temps, particularly if you're wringing its neck out to 8000rpm.  The S52 I have is almost the exact opposite, no issues with oil temps.  The only reason I added an oil cooler was to help with the water temps.  I'm about to install a hood vent for the same reason. 

 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
12/4/17 9:25 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

In reply to sleepyhead :

The big thing is that we get to do the 3.1 at Cresson. That lets us run the sketchy back section that isn't usually run by cars. It's fun. 

are you talking about right-handed crossover from 1.7 to 1.3?  Looks like there's a pretty good amount of video of cars wiping out on that section... dramatically

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
12/4/17 9:30 a.m.

Well, there's that, but the big thing is that there is a HUGE character change between the two courses. The regular 1.3 is big and open (except for rattlesnake and that's just a couple corners) but the back section is much narrower and has a couple of significant blind corners that you DO NOT want to screw up. In some ways it reminds me of the fun stuff on High Plains. It's not the same, but you need to respect it. I already know I can't drive it fast, but I really like it. There's a good chance I'll be sitting out some of the tracks this year if the car is actually faster to give Brian a chance to see what he can really do without me holding him back. 

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
12/4/17 9:50 a.m.

Blind corner tracks really seem to separate the wheat from the Chaff so to speak.........or at least give some folks a home court advantage.

 

I'll be curious to see if they swap in a different event now that MIS is off the table, sounds like Brock would like too

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
12/4/17 10:36 a.m.

The guys at the top of the rankings go and drive every track before One Lap even starts.  The rest of us with time and money constraints just wing it.

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
12/4/17 12:23 p.m.

Looking at past OLOA's if you do the event enough years in a row eventually you'll wind up with a year where you've run every track. I'd think Seth has probably seen most of the tracks on this years ticket given he's done it the last few years?

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
12/4/17 12:30 p.m.

Well, one of the differences... these days... is the abundance of Spec Miata footage on youtube at just about every closed course there is.

I looked at a handful of laptimes for a couple of tracks we were at last year, and they would be good for a top 30 or so time.  Now, a Spec Miata driver usually has a bunch of laps under them at the track the video comes from, and they run on R-comps, etc.  Still, a very useful way to visualize the 'momentum line' somewhere, and pause and look for "down the track" reference points to use for turn-in.  And, because the setups and relatively the same, it can be a useful way to correlate the laptimes to your own performance.

i.e. There's also a lot of 'vette-based video of tracks as well... but it's not always clear how much power/weight, tire type, brake type, aero, etc are being run.  All those caveats are not applicable to Spec Miata.

So,  spending 20-30mins a day watching video can make a difference over "just winging it", and then getting some laps on foot / bike just add to that muscle memory.  Or at least, that's how I've learned to approach things.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
12/4/17 12:41 p.m.
klodkrawler05 said:

Looking at past OLOA's if you do the event enough years in a row eventually you'll wind up with a year where you've run every track. I'd think Seth has probably seen most of the tracks on this years ticket given he's done it the last few years?

I've run High Plains, Hallett, both courses at Cresson and NCM. The plan is to get a weekend in at NOLA after the first of the year. I think there is certainly an advantage to doing this over and over. I'm a little bummed that they pulled MIS and that means gateway and NOLA are the only two I haven't run and part of the reason I do this is to get to run new tracks. Having said that, I'm glad we get to go back to High Plains, I love that track and I've been looking for an excuse to go back. It's a long way from anywhere so it's hard to make and excuse stick. 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
12/4/17 12:42 p.m.
klodkrawler05 said:

Looking at past OLOA's if you do the event enough years in a row eventually you'll wind up with a year where you've run every track. I'd think Seth has probably seen most of the tracks on this years ticket given he's done it the last few years?

So far, Brock has done pretty well to add little-used and new tracks each year.  So, there's usually at least one track that's new to "most everyone".  And, then, not everyone has done AutoX and/or Drags.  I suppose if Brock ends up with a bunch of tracks everyone's been to a bunch of times, he could consider running one backwards to throw people off?

I have a generalized theory about why drags/AutoX/new.tracks fit into OneLap and the Cannonball... but that thesis is probably too long for here?

edited out superfluous mazdeuce answer

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
12/5/17 9:14 a.m.

also, about a 150 days to go!

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
12/5/17 9:17 a.m.
sleepyhead said:

also, about a 150 days to go!

We're already working on the car! Seriously! Well, we're collecting parts, which is basically working on it. This year the car is going to be uncomfortable as well as loud. 

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
12/5/17 10:26 a.m.

High Plains is my local track.  I'll be out there that day to spectate, keep that in mind if anyone needs me to bring parts/tools for them...

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
12/5/17 10:59 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

 

You've got us beat, so far we've just made a list of repairs/wishes.

 

Currently my car has no A/C, no Cruise, 1 less highway cruising gear and an even louder exhaust than the 3.5" race setup on Matts car.

At least the driver seat is adjustable, that should add some comfort for transits.

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
12/5/17 11:28 a.m.

You guys are gluttons for punishment.  I just don't see the point in gutting the car like that.  You spend hours and hours in it droning away on the interstate vs just a few minutes a day at the track. 

The creature comforts just don't cost that much time at the track vs driver development but they sure make your life far more comfortable for the hours and hours of driving you do in between tracks.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
12/5/17 11:32 a.m.

I haven't confirmed car or team yet... so you both are *way* ahead of me

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
12/5/17 11:36 a.m.
docwyte said:

You guys are gluttons for punishment.  I just don't see the point in gutting the car like that.  You spend hours and hours in it droning away on the interstate vs just a few minutes a day at the track. 

The creature comforts just don't cost that much time at the track vs driver development but they sure make your life far more comfortable for the hours and hours of driving you do in between tracks.

Which is why there is a 6spd in the garage waiting to go back in.

Cruise will be fixed before OLOA. (the steering wheel still engages the cruise light on the dash I suspect a wiring issue with the trans sensors in the 5spd vs the factory 6 spd so hopefully the trans swap will fix that as well, otherwise we'll dig deeper)

The exhaust needs to be re-routed for the Diffuser anyways and actually routing it the way I plan to gives room for a muffler that's nearly 3 times the size of the current one so that should quiet it back down to civilized hold conversations and hear the radio levels

A/C is the one item that may not make the cut as it hampers cooling we desperately need to make it the 3 laps 

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
12/5/17 12:43 p.m.

I'd argue that if your car can't make it three laps without overheating then there's something radically wrong with your car.  I extensively ran my 490rwhp VF supercharged E46 M3 on track up here in Denver (heat and altitude) without any overheating issues.  With the stock radiator and oil cooler, full interior, AC, etc, etc...

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth MegaDork
12/5/17 1:05 p.m.

We have AC and cruise and a radio and carpet and all that. The uncomfortable is going to come from the suspension. The idea what to get enough spring to handle a 275 in the future without having to re-do suspension again. We're in negotiations about the exhaust drone.

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
12/5/17 1:32 p.m.

I wonder how much the VF water cooled intercooler compared to the ESS air intercooler I have plays into that? the ESS design blocks off at least 1/3 of the lower grille opening and what isn't blocked off is forced through the intercooler before it ever gets to the radiator/oil cooler.

I'm open to other ideas but I assume that is the main issue and is on the list of upgrades for this winter. I've got the CSF Radiator, C&R oil cooler extra ducting to force air through and hood vents so it should be miles ahead in terms of cooling from yours. I've done a compression test, leak down test and bled the radiator till I'm blue in the face. Coolant temps are fine but oil creeps up near 300 after a few 10/10's laps.

 

Seth, quality dampers are your friend. We ran 900lb front, 800lb rear springs last year on the MCS dampers. With the rebound turned to full soft they were comically comfortable on the transits. It defies your senses how comfortable the car can be with so much spring rate.

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
12/5/17 1:44 p.m.

I should also mention for Doc's sake. Last year we did OLOA in a full factory amenities m3 to dip our toes in and see what OLOA is all about. From what we learned last year we decided there are a couple things we're willing to go without (A/C for instance) in the hunt for more performance.

The hunt for more performance is superfluous anyways, if you aren't bringing something AWD with near quad digit power numbers you don't have a shot at winning the overall anyways...but we hope we're closing the gap. The M3 we drove last year was about 8 seconds off Catesby's Road Atl time per lap, the M3 we're hoping to take this year closes that gap down to about 2-3 seconds pending whose driving. That should result in us getting to the hotels earlier and getting more sleep!

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
12/5/17 4:57 p.m.

One Lap is such a nuclear war it just isn't worth trying.  The top teams are either pro or semi pro drivers with intimate knowledge of each track in super dollar hyper prepared cars. 

I just try and have fun and be competitive with the cars around me.

docwyte
docwyte SuperDork
12/5/17 5:01 p.m.

Not sure about the intercooler, the air/water radiator wasn't very thick and sat in front of the lower grill opening.  I was pleasantly surprised at how cool it ran.  I assumed I was going to have to upgrade the radiator and oil cooler but didn't have to. 

Water temps always were fine, oil temps would run around 275.  I'd prefer lower, but I'm ok with anything under 300 on track. By contrast the S52 in my E36 M3 rarely touches 230F oil temps even without an oil cooler.  I added the Euro oil cooler to it recently to see if I can knock down the water temps some.  I'm also adding a hood vent.  I expect the oil temps won't go over 215-220F now.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
12/6/17 1:22 p.m.

i can't recall klodkrawler, does your turbo have a heat shield around it?  does the splitter extend back behind the end of the oil pan?  How does the oil route around?

It sounds like the turbo's adding heat to the oil, which might mean you want to look at routing the turbo return to the oil cooler... assuming that's possible without some in-line pump or something.

Another possibility (although, I'd expect to see this in higher coolant temps) is that the current aero setup is creating stagnate air around the pan.  This might be as simple as drilling some holes into the edging between the cover and the splitter, or adding a hole and some kind of scoop to the splitter right behind the radiator setup to encourage air to clear out from around the engine and up out your hood vents (and there's a possibility those aren't as "effective" as they should be... could be tested with string tufts to make sure you're getting good flow out of them).

klodkrawler05
klodkrawler05 Reader
12/7/17 8:35 a.m.

Hmm tuft testing may need to happen. Yea my splitter covers pretty much the entire oil pan. My cars actually supercharged not turbo and is self contained so I don't think it's adding to oil heat (at least not directly in that way) 

I modified the original oil cooler ducting to let air flow better because previously the intercooler pipe jammed up against the ducting and pretty much sealed off air from flowing through the back.

I think more ducting and also some sort of ducting to help vent air through the hood will increase the gain. I'm also planning to add small gurney flaps to the leading edge of my hood vents which I think should help extract more air out.

The last possibility of this is that my temp sender is starting to go bad, these read from the bottom of the pan and are known to be rather in consistent. A friend has the same blower and cooling setup minus hood vents and can track full sessions without issue. I know i've got more cooling than him and oil analysis from my car typically comes out very positively so I haven't sweated it too much other than to just continually add more cooling as I'm able.

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