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Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed Dork
9/11/12 2:42 p.m.
jstein77 wrote: Plus they're really ugly.

Ain't that the truth. That is one fugly front end. And the rear is no better!

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/11/12 2:49 p.m.
alfadriver wrote:
Javelin wrote:
bravenrace wrote: My friend has a new Lincoln SUV. Well, I can't tell you the name of it, but I will say that it's pretty darn nice, and looks good too. They have an identity problem for sure. Not sure that all their stuff sucks, though.

And it's identical to the Ford version in all content. He got a split grill and a different badge. That's why they "suck".

do you think a lot of Acuras or Lexus "suck" as well? Many of those are just rebodied Hondas or Toyotas.

Just curious if you apply that "reasoning" to other companies.

The difference being Acura and Lexus (and Infiniti and Buick etc etc) both have their own actual sheetmetal and interiors, Lincoln has neither. Both also have their own unique platforms for certain cars (RWD IS, LSF, NSX, etc) and have pretty full product lines.

Lincoln has exactly 5 vehicles, all of which differ from their Ford equals in just grill/nameplate details. There's no compact, no performance line, no coupe or convertible, no wagon, no RWD, no halo car, etc, etc, etc.

Take off the "Ford Employee" rose-colored glasses and you will see Lincoln for the long-dead zombie of a brand that it is.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler HalfDork
9/11/12 2:52 p.m.
Feedyurhed wrote:
jstein77 wrote: Plus they're really ugly.

Ain't that the truth. That is one fugly front end. And the rear is no better!

That's where we differ. I don't mind the looks of them, though generally I like the Ford versions better.

And Eric, I know you weren't asking me, but yes, rebadging is stupid no matter who does it. The ironic thing is that I remember Ford running a commercial back in the 80s when GM was producing nearly-identical A-body cars for almost all their divisions where people were coming out of a restaurant and getting confused about who's car was who's.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler HalfDork
9/11/12 2:55 p.m.
Javelin wrote: Lincoln has exactly 5 vehicles, all of which differ from their Ford equals in just grill/nameplate details. There's no compact, no performance line, no coupe or convertible, no wagon, no RWD, no halo car, etc, etc, etc.

I think you are exaggerating the similarities, the styling can be quite different (MKT vs. Flex, for instance). But the rest of your point is dead on. There's nothing that's unique to Lincoln.

yamaha
yamaha HalfDork
9/11/12 2:56 p.m.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: In reply to yamaha: The Aussie Falcon is gone in 2014. I think the only Euro car we don't get already is the Mondeo.

I see ford losing the AU market with that kick in the bucket.....

JohnRW1621
JohnRW1621 PowerDork
9/11/12 2:58 p.m.
Tom_Spangler wrote: The ironic thing is that I remember Ford running a commercial back in the 80s when GM was producing nearly-identical A-body cars for almost all their divisions where people were coming out of a restaurant and getting confused about who's car was who's.

Because the Granada and Monarch or Escort and Lynx of the era were so easily distinguished from one another???

alfadriver
alfadriver PowerDork
9/11/12 2:59 p.m.
Javelin wrote: The difference being Acura and Lexus (and Infiniti and Buick etc etc) both have their own actual sheetmetal and interiors, Lincoln has neither. Both also have their own unique platforms for certain cars (RWD IS, LSF, NSX, etc) and have pretty full product lines. Lincoln has exactly 5 vehicles, all of which differ from their Ford equals in just grill/nameplate details. There's no compact, no performance line, no coupe or convertible, no wagon, no RWD, no halo car, etc, etc, etc. Take off the "Ford Employee" rose-colored glasses and you will see Lincoln for the long-dead zombie of a brand that it is.

Dude, I'm not saying that Lincoln is great, I'm just pointing out that they are not the only ones that badge engineer.

BTW, outside of the MKX, which other Lincoln shares any body parts with it's equivalent Ford? You go an make an grandious statement, which is pretty much all wrong.

MKS looks nothing like a Taurus, MKT is nothing like a Flex, MKZ looks nothing like a Fusion.

I agree that the badge engineering is weak, but they are exaclty the same as Acura, Lexus, and Buick in those respects. So why you pick that "reason" out is weak, unless you heap down that "reason" to everyone, equally.

donalson
donalson PowerDork
9/11/12 3:15 p.m.

even in the adds now they no longer call them a MARK (insert number)... it is now the eMMM-Kayy... it's the same in shooter games... if there is a mk14, mk46 or anything else with a mk most people i know call it eMMM-Kayy... it's MARK MARK MARK MARK...

doh...

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler HalfDork
9/11/12 3:21 p.m.
JohnRW1621 wrote:
Tom_Spangler wrote: The ironic thing is that I remember Ford running a commercial back in the 80s when GM was producing nearly-identical A-body cars for almost all their divisions where people were coming out of a restaurant and getting confused about who's car was who's.

Because the Granada and Monarch or Escort and Lynx of the era were so easily distinguished from one another???

I know. At least Ford had fewer. And this was way post-Granada, it was probably 1985 or so.

I might employ my Google-fu to see if I can find the commercial online somewhere.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
9/11/12 3:29 p.m.
Javelin wrote: The difference being Acura and Lexus (and Infiniti and Buick etc etc) both have their own actual sheetmetal and interiors, Lincoln has neither. Both also have their own unique platforms for certain cars (RWD IS, LSF, NSX, etc) and have pretty full product lines. Lincoln has exactly 5 vehicles, all of which differ from their Ford equals in just grill/nameplate details. There's no compact, no performance line, no coupe or convertible, no wagon, no RWD, no halo car, etc, etc, etc. Take off the "Ford Employee" rose-colored glasses and you will see Lincoln for the long-dead zombie of a brand that it is.

Please identify the exact same car with differnt badges:

Mk T Vs Flex, oh yeah, identical aren't they!!!

FMk Z Vs Fusion, come off it " />

Mk X Vs Edge Yes, there's shared sheet metel here, but still very differnt looks and interior. We had an MkX for a year prior to the Mustang. Amazing ability to carry people in comfort over long or short distances, pull a boat trailer, go camping etc etc. A really nice and very refind vehicle.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury UltimaDork
9/11/12 3:31 p.m.
alfadriver wrote:
Javelin wrote: The difference being Acura and Lexus (and Infiniti and Buick etc etc) both have their own actual sheetmetal and interiors, Lincoln has neither. Both also have their own unique platforms for certain cars (RWD IS, LSF, NSX, etc) and have pretty full product lines. Lincoln has exactly 5 vehicles, all of which differ from their Ford equals in just grill/nameplate details. There's no compact, no performance line, no coupe or convertible, no wagon, no RWD, no halo car, etc, etc, etc. Take off the "Ford Employee" rose-colored glasses and you will see Lincoln for the long-dead zombie of a brand that it is.

Dude, I'm not saying that Lincoln is great, I'm just pointing out that they are not the only ones that badge engineer.

BTW, outside of the MKX, which other Lincoln shares any body parts with it's equivalent Ford? You go an make an grandious statement, which is pretty much all wrong.

MKS looks nothing like a Taurus, MKT is nothing like a Flex, MKZ looks nothing like a Fusion.

I agree that the badge engineering is weak, but they are exaclty the same as Acura, Lexus, and Buick in those respects. So why you pick that "reason" out is weak, unless you heap down that "reason" to everyone, equally.

The difference is Buick, Infiniti, Caddy, Lexus, and Acura also produce cars with their own platform and/or a performance halo car that provides a basis upon which to build their brand. Lincoln seems to just be a conjoined twin, leaching off Ford.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler HalfDork
9/11/12 3:34 p.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote: We had an MkX for a year prior to the Mustang. Amazing ability to carry people in comfort over long or short distances, pull a boat trailer, go camping etc etc. A really nice and very refind vehicle

True. But you can say the EXACT same thing about an Edge. That's the problem.

Cotton
Cotton Dork
9/11/12 3:39 p.m.

One of our neighbors has an MKT in the dark red color.....really looks great to me. Honestly the first time I saw it drive by I was rubber necking.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson SuperDork
9/11/12 3:39 p.m.
Tom_Spangler wrote:
Adrian_Thompson wrote: We had an MkX for a year prior to the Mustang. Amazing ability to carry people in comfort over long or short distances, pull a boat trailer, go camping etc etc. A really nice and very refind vehicle

True. But you can say the EXACT same thing about an Edge. That's the problem.

You could also say exactly the same thing about the Golf and Audi A3 and the Seat Leon and the Skoda Octavia..... that doesn’t' make them bad cars for sharing the same platform does it? Yes there are similarities, but the cars are diverging more with each model that's coming out. Gone are the days of badge engineering even if people want to pretend they haven't.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler HalfDork
9/11/12 3:52 p.m.

There are more differences than their used to be, but badge engineering or platform sharing will never go away. Nor should it, to be honest. But again, other than styling, what makes Lincolns better or different from Fords? Especially now that Fords have gone so upscale with all the power and infotainment options you'd likely ever want anyhow?

I really think it would help if they had a "halo car". Look at what the CTS-V has done for Cadillac's image. And there's no Chevy or Buick version of that car.

bravenrace
bravenrace PowerDork
9/11/12 3:54 p.m.
Javelin wrote:
bravenrace wrote: My friend has a new Lincoln SUV. Well, I can't tell you the name of it, but I will say that it's pretty darn nice, and looks good too. They have an identity problem for sure. Not sure that all their stuff sucks, though.

And it's identical to the Ford version in all content. He got a split grill and a different badge. That's why they "suck".

That's what every company does to produce their premium brand.

SilverFleet
SilverFleet Dork
9/11/12 4:03 p.m.

Ford has had trouble with figuring out what to do with Lincoln for quite a while.

Their main competitor was Cadillac. Around the year 2000, it seemed like they were pointing in the right direction. They had the LS as the "American 3-series competitor", the Navigator to compete with the Escalade, the Continental to compete with the old Caddy SLS, and the Town Car to compete with the big Caddies. Things looked good.

Then Cadillac grew up. Now, they are back to that old World Class Standard they used to talk about. Lincoln jumped ship on the LS (the one car they had that could have competed with the CTS) and pretty much turned into Mercury.

Now it seems Lincoln is trying to pander to old Mercury buyers and competing with Buick. The new MKT has a "Town Car Edition" or something like that now, just to slip the name in there for the old folks to recognize. Just what America needs: elderly confused drivers in an even bigger vehicle plowing through Walmarts and school zones.

I hope they figure it out. I'd like to see Lincoln really compete with Cadillac. Competition brings progress!

JtspellS
JtspellS HalfDork
9/11/12 4:05 p.m.

More over aside from looks that need to be able to compete with the BMW's, AUDI's, Volvo's (yeah i said it!)

I mean when was the last time anyone said "man that lincoln just kills it"

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/11/12 4:21 p.m.
Tom_Spangler wrote:
Javelin wrote: Lincoln has exactly 5 vehicles, all of which differ from their Ford equals in just grill/nameplate details. There's no compact, no performance line, no coupe or convertible, no wagon, no RWD, no halo car, etc, etc, etc.

I think you are exaggerating the similarities, the styling can be quite different (MKT vs. Flex, for instance). But the rest of your point is dead on. There's nothing that's unique to Lincoln.

I'm not exaggerating that I know of. The Lincolns all do look like identical sheetmetal. If you have to google pictures of them and hold them side-by-side for intense scrutiny before anything outside of grills and lights becomes different, then they are too similar (even if they aren't the same stampings). I know the people that work in this building that have some Lincoln SUV looks identical to the Ford version elsewhere in the parking lot, but I will grant that they are both ~3 years old.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/11/12 4:25 p.m.
bravenrace wrote:
Javelin wrote:
bravenrace wrote: My friend has a new Lincoln SUV. Well, I can't tell you the name of it, but I will say that it's pretty darn nice, and looks good too. They have an identity problem for sure. Not sure that all their stuff sucks, though.

And it's identical to the Ford version in all content. He got a split grill and a different badge. That's why they "suck".

That's what every company does to produce their premium brand.

No, they don't. What platform and sheetmetal and powertrain and interior does Buick crib off of Chevy for the Regal GS? What about the Caddy CTS? See the point now? There's nothing wrong with a little sharing, but every other luxury mark has one or more of the following that their parent company does not:

  • Unique platforms
  • Unique interiors
  • Larger/better/more economical engines
  • Sport and/or Performance lines
  • Halo cars

Lincoln has none of that. They used to, but now they don't.

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
9/11/12 4:33 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Oh, so the 2013 Fusion and Lincoln MKGrowth actually look different now? Here's the 2012's:

Fusion:

MKZ:

Oh, and here's the 2012 Expedition:

2012 Navigator:

2012 Edge:

2012 MKX:

dean1484
dean1484 UltraDork
9/11/12 4:59 p.m.

I was only anoyed that Mercury was dropped because we stopped getting commercials with Jill Wagner .

Since Lincoln uses that annoying looking bleached blond dud with the black framed glasses in there commercials I could care less if Lincoln goes away

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
9/11/12 5:43 p.m.

I will never understand why Ford did not wake up with the CTS hit the road. They had the perfect oppertunity to steal some of Caddy's thunder with a better LS... but instead tucked tail and went back the way they came.

Sometimes I think Ford is afraid of change

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler HalfDork
9/11/12 6:32 p.m.
mad_machine wrote: I will never understand why Ford did not wake up with the CTS hit the road. They had the perfect oppertunity to steal some of Caddy's thunder with a better LS... but instead tucked tail and went back the way they came.

Seriously. All they had to do was steal the engine from the Jag S-type R (platform mate with the LS) and they could have gone toe-to-toe with the first-gen CTS-V. I always liked the LS, there were a couple of times when I considered buying one used. It was really too bad they gave up on it, it was a good platform.

alfadriver
alfadriver PowerDork
9/11/12 6:55 p.m.

In reply to Javelin:

Dude, when do you plan on doing the same analysis of Acura, Lexus, etc???

You have some kind of bizzaro fascination with Ford, and have no inclination to ever buy a new car, let alone a Linclon.

Yes, there are issues, but the one that you apparently have a beef with is done across the industry. Audi- VW, Dodge-Fiat (upcoming), etc. If you think THAT is the problem, your analysis of the industry is shallow, literally skin deep.

Issues run a WHOLE lot deeper than the sheet metal. But if you want your own moot opinion to be so incredibly pointless, well, go for it.

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