My brother is considering a E39 M5 with obscenely low mileage vs a E30 M3 with about 120+K. The answer is Miata, he already has one. So what are the pros and cons. I think the biggest concern is unexpected expenses. Priority is probably on fun to drive. This will be a weekend driver, occasional track toy.
Also how would you compare a warmed over E30 325is to the M3?
no comparison between the M3 and warmed over 325. The M3 is as close to an uncompromised race car for the street as you can get.
The M5 is an obscenely fast mid sized sedan...
I don't understand how anyone would come down to those two for the same job... One is a 5 passenger family sedan on steroids and the other is a homogolized racing car. Its like saying which is a better landscaping vehicle, a CAT Backhoe or an E39 M5?
Comparing a warmed over E30 325is to the M3 is a much better "track-toy" question and the answer is that a 325is can be made faster, more cheaply and cost less to maintain (E30 M3 parts are $$$). It takes a lot of "upgrades" to make them even on lap time but not a lot of $ if you know how and can do the work yourself. It also won't upset purists when you decide to stuff an S52 in there to make more power or saw it up to save weight.
I made a mistake, my brother is looking at an E28 M5 not an E39. Which is why the two cars are in the running, both 80s BMW performance.
Thanks Bro. Here is some more color - I (the brother) just sold my 2005 GT 5 speed wagon and am driving a 99 Mercedes E320 wagon (4 kids). I have a 65 Corvair convertible and a half assed spec Miata (not really spec but is gutted with a full cage). The Miata is not street legal and the Corvair is slow so I was looking for an old school toy that had some hp and handling - one that I could drive on the street and get classic insurance ($100/yr for the Corvair) and also perhaps track once and a while (which I did with both the Subie and the Corvair).
I've been looking (online) at some late 80s BMWs that would fit the bill and like the rarity of the Ms, if not always the price. The exotic motors are also a bit scary as most of the cars under $15k have lots of miles. I did see one 88 M5 not too far (NY) that looked reasonable but needed an interior, and a E30 with 150k miles that also looked pretty decent. I do realize that these two Ms are very different beasts, but any thoughts are very welcome.
Seanpg1 wrote:Thanks Bro. Here is some more color - I (the brother) just sold my 2005 GT 5 speed wagon and am driving a 99 Mercedes E320 wagon (4 kids). I have a 65 Corvair convertible and a half assed spec Miata (not really spec but is gutted with a full cage). The Miata is not street legal and the Corvair is slow so I was looking for an old school toy that had some hp and handling - one that I could drive on the street and get classic insurance ($100/yr for the Corvair) and also perhaps track once and a while (which I did with both the Subie and the Corvair).
I've been looking (online) at some late 80s BMWs that would fit the bill and like the rarity of the Ms, if not always the price. The exotic motors are also a bit scary as most of the cars under $15k have lots of miles. I did see one 88 M5 not too far (NY) that looked reasonable but needed an interior, and a E30 with 150k miles that also looked pretty decent. I do realize that these two Ms are very different beasts, but any thoughts are very welcome.
OK, well... the E28 M5s engine is made out of unobtainium... its a GREAT motor but its really pricy to fix if it goes bad. They are pretty solid and bulletproof though. It is an excellent car for the open road. Your E320 is probably a better one though and faster too.
The E30 M3s engine is also made of unobtainium, its a GREAT motor but its really pricy to fix if it goes bad. It is a solid, although not bulletproof motor and if its had a hard life you can figure $10k for a ground-up rebuild at some point. The difference IMO is that it is in a GREAT car for the track where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It is not a good street car - its harsh, noisy and buzzy with no torque down low - but it will make you grin lap after lap on a race track.
Looking at the whole pie here though... you have Miata with a cage which will make most people grin as much as an E30 M3 at a slightly slower lap time and a ton of savings at the wallet. It is entirely bulletproof and if it does pop... you can get a whole powertrain for very little.
So, track car is covered... family hauler is covered... what you are looking for then is a fun street car from the 80s?
Does the M5 have 45k miles on it? If so I saw it advertised over on the www.mye28.com board. There are a few others listed over there at the moment as well. As far as the comparison between an M5 and M3, the M5 would be a better choice for street driving, I think, but in both cases it probably comes down to their condition and how they've been maintained. The engine in either car will cost a lot of money to rebuild, but if they've been well cared for they should both run for long time without issues.
My daily driver is an '86 M535i euro spec car - it has the single cam engine, but otherwise is very similar to an M5. That generation of 5 series cars were built like bricks - mine has only195k miles on it 
and there guys out there with 400k+ miles on their cars and they're still running strong.
Giant Purple - fun street car it is. I've done this a couple of times before - built or bought a dedicated track car and then realized (duh!) that it sucks to have it sit in the drive way 360 days a year. Plus I overstated it when I sad it was half assed - it is technically quarter ased as a friend owns half of it. It was a $800 car that included a hard top (worth $800) so I could not pass that one up. I suppose I could buy another miata and keep it street legal...
Stuart - I did trade messages with the owner on the 45k mile M5. Seems like the real deal, and the car is 50 miles from me, but he is unsure of what he wants for it. Probably higher teens which may be a good price but more than I want to spend. I did find an former AZ one up in NJ that went for $5500 on ebay bit the buyer crapped out. That one has 150k and has had a lot of recent work and a really ratty (i.e. almost missing) interior. I am guessing thathere is no such thing as a cheap M car.
While I can be a an automotive masochist (first car was a $100 Chevy panel truck with no brakes, no motor and no electrics - I wired it myself when I was 16. Too bad I'm colorblind...) I'm a bit unsure about any unobtainium motors. Any thoughts on E28 535is? Looks like anM% but in color - I recall that GRM built a couple of those years ago - less valuable and exotic than an M5 but I'm guessing that the 3.5 is obtainable.
Nothing wrong with a 535is, although they only had 182hp stock so by today's standards they aren't rockets. They're still good drivers; they're also more plentiful and cheaper than an M5.
You really need to drive them.
the s14 (e30 m3 motor) and the s38 (m5 motor) are essentially the 4 and 6 cylinder version of the same motor (there are some different changes, but they are reallly really close)
You are talking about 4 valve, dohc solid lifter motors with individual throttle bodies.
After you get past the 2 cylinder difference, you have some VERY different card. The m5 is an autobahn cruiser and the m3 is a tamed racing car.
Dramatically different suspensions, curb weights and ride qualities. 1 drive should really make it clear what you want.
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=69110
The same topic is currently being discussed over on mye28.com. I prefer the combination of an M5 and a 2002, but I guess a Miata would do just fine in place of the '02.
I would look at how much track time you are realistically going to spend in this new toy. If you see yourself frequently hitting the track--- the E30 M3 is clearly the way to go. The E30 will also have a better chance of appreciating over time.
If you are looking for a fun, solid, rare mostly-street car, go with the M5.
They are both great but the E30> on track and the M5>on the street.
of course you can get a E36 M3 and have the best of both worlds
If you want an 80's BMW that you can street drive, and take to the track now and then, get a 325is and mod it. You will have your 80's style, and with the money you will save on the purchase price, you can take care of maintenance and do some mods. Swap a S50/S52 in it for power, if you need, down the road.
The 5 series stopped being cool after the e28.
