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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Opinions please!! E30 vs 944 vs FC RX7 street/ track

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March 31, 2011 12:58 p.m. thunderzy New Reader

I am considering one of these models to build a street legal track car this year. I've done tons a reading on each and have read the comparison threads here. Still not sold on either.

My deciding factors are; reliability, low initial investment, easy to work on (DIY), community support, parts cost and parts availability.

I like the way all three of these cars look. I would like a car with decent power, but appreciate quickness over top speed. All three have high engine swapability, same family motors as well as documented v8 conversions.

Which car will break down the least? Which will be the least expensive to repair? Which is easier for me to work on (moderately handy)?

Thanks Zack
March 31, 2011 1:02 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

I think the E30 would be the logical "board" winner here, but i'd personally probably go with an FC RX7.

I don't think the 944 is in the same ballpark as the others.

With how cheap a clean FC goes for around here, i'd think the FC would be the winner in this location. Can't really say for where you are. FC also has the ridiculously huge aftermarket working your favor as well.
March 31, 2011 1:04 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

FC RX-7 wins this one hands-down. Rotaries are the easiest to work on short of a full rebuild (as there's really nothing else to do with them really), are easiest on maintenance, and as Celica said, cheapest to buy in.

<<< 944 Owner
March 31, 2011 1:10 p.m. 1988RedT2 Dork

I'll vote FC, but I may be biased.
March 31, 2011 1:14 p.m. thunderzy New Reader

I should have mention I'm located in metro Detroit.
March 31, 2011 2:01 p.m. amg_rx7 HalfDork

All great cars but for my money it would be the FC

I beat my 88 GTU mercilessly for 6 years (100k miles or so) doing double duty street and track. The only mechanical issue I ever had was a master cylinder. Just change the oil, spark plugs and brake pads.

Compared to the E30, I like how the FC carries its weight and it has less body roll. The steering has really nice feel. I think the FC's interior is much more ergonomically correct (for me anyway) than the E30.
March 31, 2011 2:30 p.m. Matt B HalfDork

I have to say I'm surprised to hear the overwhelming support for the FC, at least between this comparison. Not that I disagree, but you rarely hear the rotary being described as "reliable" or "cheap". I guess it's the reputation that the FD garnered that has soured my mental cache.

Cool to hear they're relatively easy to live with. (as if I needed another rwd coupe from the 80's)
March 31, 2011 2:34 p.m. 92CelicaHalfTrac SuperDork

In a high stress high RPM situation, a rotary is arguably more reliable than a piston engine when properly maintained...
March 31, 2011 2:50 p.m. Brett_Murphy Reader

Cheap to operate on the street and cheap to operate on the track are two very different things.

NON-Turbo rotaries can be very reliable; it's very easy to get more than 150k miles on them if you take care of them and are religious about your oil.

Turbo rotaries can last 120k miles (or more) stock but will start spitting out apex seals very quickly if things aren't just right.
March 31, 2011 2:57 p.m. JamesMcD New Reader

You almost have to beat the crap out of the FC to keep it running. I didn't think I drove like a grandma, but I guess I do, because I managed to carbon-lock mine. I had to use a Mazda un-carbon-locker SST to free it up again. (Yes, this really exists specifically for that purpose; you remove the starter and bolt in its place a 1/2"-drive pinion-gear thingy that you can wail on with a breaker bar to turn the motor back and forth to loosen it up).
March 31, 2011 2:58 p.m. ReverendDexter SuperDork

Hrm, I'd be split between the E30 and the FC, and likely just pick up whichever I found a clean example at the right price first.

And even turbo rotaries are reliable. The problem is people trying to jam higher-than stock boost through them exacerbating the heat issues. Keep a rotary cool, keep it at stock boost, and it will stay happy.
March 31, 2011 3:17 p.m. Brett_Murphy Reader

In reply to JamesMcD:

Truth. If you don't wind them up to red-line often, you're doing yourself no favors.I used to hear the shift buzzer so often I stopped noticing it. That's bad, because if you run low on coolant or oil (say, due to the line going to the oil cooler rupturing) the SAME exact buzzer goes off.
March 31, 2011 3:20 p.m. pilotbraden HalfDork

RX-7, pre mix your gas, spin happily.
March 31, 2011 3:40 p.m. oldtin Dork

I really want to love the 944 - it's comfy and balanced and the spec 944s have an ok following (not as good as the e30 though), but the FC would be my pick. It's the buy-in and parts prices on the 944. OTOH, I've been thinking of picking up extra cash parting 944s.
March 31, 2011 3:41 p.m. Rustspecs13 Reader

Cool thing about rotarys is they dont have valves to bend. Or replace. Or upgrade.

know what an 800hp rotary has done to it? Porting, fuel, turbo. And stronger bolts that hold it together.

But for a track car, an NA rotary is super hard to blow. Unless the previous owners over heated it they can go for a long time. You just need to make sure the oil and coolant temps stay in check and it'll twirl its magical trangles as long as you want.

I think FC's look super sexy with their oem widebody. Like the 944's. But you dont have the P tax on all your parts.

Any way all are good options. And all have proven track records. Do what ever you like best. Just put the 944 last on the list if you like it easy to work on...

~Alex
March 31, 2011 3:57 p.m. dyintorace SuperDork

As a data point, I just sold a running (but only moderately driving) L33 (aluminum 5.3L V8)/T56 swapped FC RX-7 convertible for $4k. It needs work but is mostly there and not far from being a killer car.

Prior to that, I owned a 405rwhp V8 swapped FC. It was a lot(!) of fun on the track.
March 31, 2011 4:08 p.m. thunderzy New Reader

I'm a bit surprised the FC is getting so much love. Spinning triangle scares me a bit, as I've never even seen one in person. Are they really as easy to work on as mentioned above? What about the other major components; trans, brakes, rear ends, steering box? Are they stout enough to handle full track days?
March 31, 2011 4:11 p.m. BoxheadTim SuperDork

FCs have rack & pinion steering IIRC. They're pretty robust cars - the engine is probably the weakest component in the whole mix.

Oh, and they'll drink like the Oz rugby team on tour at a free beer stand on the track, especially if it's a turbo. I'd go N/A for a track car, though.

There really isn't that much to the engine, as long as you work with the necessary precision they're pretty easy to rebuild.
March 31, 2011 4:39 p.m. RexSeven Dork

I beat my non-turbo FC regularly at autocross and it keeps coming back for more! If you are looking for one, get one with 5-lug wheels, as those have the more powerful brakes (vented rotors all around, 4-piston calipers up front). You may need to rebuild the calipers though as at their age they tend to stick. With stainless steel brake lines and upgraded pads the FC stops pretty well. The brake master cylinder has a tendency to flex on the sidewall. If your rules package allows it, you can make your own stopper that mounts to the driver's-side strut tower to minimize movement.

Use synthetic in the gearbox and differential. The 86-88 GXL, 88 GTU, and all Turbo models came with a clutch-type LSD from the factory, the extremely rare and desirable 89-90 GTUs (note the little "s") came with a VLSD, the rest had open diffs. If you do a V-8 swap you might want to upgrade the diff and axles to Turbo parts. The rear subframe is a PITA to drop, but you don't need to remove it for most jobs.

Before tracking an FC, make sure the cooling system is in good shape and get a real water temperature gauge. Overheating is the enemy of rotary engines. The 86-88 (a.k.a. Series 4, or S4) water temperature gauge is linear but slow, so by the time it gets to the upper temperature range you may already be doing damage to your engine.. The 89-91 (S5) gauge has three positions - cold, normal, and your engine asplode.
March 31, 2011 8:23 p.m. thunderzy New Reader

racinginc215 wrote:

where ya at in Michigan you can look at and drive mine if your semi close.

That would be awesome!! I live in Bloomfield.
March 31, 2011 9:09 p.m. BigD New Reader

I'm an E30 guy but given the following:

thunderzy wrote: My deciding factors are; reliability, low initial investment, easy to work on (DIY), community support, parts cost and parts availability.

I don't see where the hesitation/confusion lies. The other two are not in the running in any of those parameters. Somewhat maintained, the E30 is dead nuts reliable, as easy to work on as an EFI car can possibly be, community support only rivaled by Civics, parts are dirt cheap with tons of parts suppliers and aftermarket support.
March 31, 2011 10:10 p.m. JamesMcD New Reader

BigD wrote:

I'm an E30 guy but given the following:

thunderzy wrote: My deciding factors are; reliability, low initial investment, easy to work on (DIY), community support, parts cost and parts availability.

I don't see where the hesitation/confusion lies. The other two are not in the running in any of those parameters. Somewhat maintained, the E30 is dead nuts reliable, as easy to work on as an EFI car can possibly be, community support only rivaled by Civics, parts are dirt cheap with tons of parts suppliers and aftermarket support.

Are you crazy? Not in the running? Nice FCs are quite inexpensive, the parts are dirt cheap from the club-forum classifieds, they are reliable, especially non-turbos, and they have a huge knowledge base.
March 31, 2011 10:17 p.m. Javelin SuperDork

Not to mention an aftermarket that puts the E30 to shame...
April 1, 2011 5:31 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

I love my E30. Parts have been very inexpensive, easy to find, and good online knowledge is readily available.

I don't know much of anything about magical spinning triangles other than they don't have much torque. I prefer the power band of my M20 six over the ability to spin things to insanely high rpms.

I can tell you 944s aren't any faster around a track than an E30. I get immense joy from passing them.
April 1, 2011 6:59 a.m. Luke SuperDork

I think an FC RX7 will be my next car. I have a hankering for some 80s styling and high RPM fun.

Where I live, however, the #1 problem is finding a nice example. So many FCs are poorly modified/ill-maintained, then thrashed to within an inch of their life, then put up for sale .

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