Jerry
Jerry SuperDork
8/8/14 6:57 a.m.

Took the Abarth in for it's first oil change, and they rotated the tires as well. I ended up paying for 3 new wheel lugs that they said were stuck, and they showed them to me afterwards. Looks like they airhammered the berkeley out of them to get them out.

I have a torque wrench, and guessed they were the same torque as the old Scion (70something ftlbs). Could autocross have put stress on them somehow? These aren't regular lug nuts, they are wheel studs that come completely out from the hub. Surprised me the first time I removed one. Did that make a difference?

Like this:

trucke
trucke Reader
8/8/14 7:36 a.m.

70 lbs would not damage a lug bolt. Autocross would not change the torque value.

My guess is the shop probably had the air wrench set to tighten before they realized it. Charged you for their mistake.

ryanty22
ryanty22 Dork
8/8/14 7:46 a.m.
trucke wrote: 70 lbs would not damage a lug bolt. Autocross would not change the torque value. My guess is the shop probably had the air wrench set to tighten before they realized it. Charged you for their mistake.

Had a shop try that E36 M3 before

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
8/8/14 7:56 a.m.

+1 for them screwing up and making you pay for it.

Also note that it's standard practice for most shops to air-gun on your lugs with the force of a thousand suns, and then maybe check that the torque exceeds the factory spec to make sure they're legally in the clear. Your everyday car that is maintained by Sears, Pep Boys etc. is driving around with their lugs on at 200ft-lbs+. Good luck for anyone who needs to put on a spare on the roadside.

Jerry
Jerry SuperDork
8/8/14 7:59 a.m.

D'oh.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
8/8/14 8:04 a.m.

If it was an old car I'd think that a bit of metal might have peeled off and got into the threads when you were tightening them, jamming it on permanently. That happened to me before. Tightened the lug with my bare hands, had to be taken out in pieces with a dremel.

motomoron
motomoron SuperDork
8/8/14 10:33 a.m.

Those studs have plated threads. Gun them in hard enough and the plating flakes, creating what is essentially chromium Loctite.

Put a little anti-seize on - just the barest smidgen - and torque properly.

Tell the shop specifically not to gun them next time.

Better yet - install a set of studs and use nuts. Infinitely easier wheel changes and the female threads in the hub don't see a billion in-out cycles.

Jerry
Jerry SuperDork
8/8/14 10:51 a.m.

Well crap, guess I'm pulling all 4 wheels this weekend and checking the torque.

NGTD
NGTD SuperDork
8/8/14 11:39 a.m.

I had a shop torque the lug nuts on to my BIL Dakota so hard that we couldn't budge them with a 2 ft breaker with a cheater, and all 230lbs of him jumping on the end.

I mad him take it back to them and remove them. Idiots!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
8/8/14 12:19 p.m.
motomoron wrote: Better yet - install a set of studs and use nuts. Infinitely easier wheel changes and the female threads in the hub don't see a billion in-out cycles.

Yeah, any car with lug bolts that does more than DD'ing should get a stud conversion ASAP. Shockingly, there's no conversion kit available for the Fiat 500 though.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy SuperDork
8/8/14 12:20 p.m.

I had a Sears break 5 studs in a row, all next to each other, on my 8-lug Dodge truck before someone finally read my note on the work order reminding them about left hand threads on one side of the truck. They didn't fess up either, I found it in the parking lot with only 3 lug nuts on one wheel.

Service manager even argued with me until I pointed out that you could see which direction they had been twisted in what was left of the studs.

KyAllroad
KyAllroad Reader
8/8/14 12:23 p.m.

The alternative is fun. A friends abarth lost it's LF wheel on the interstate after an autoX event a couple months ago. Excitement for him!

ryanty22
ryanty22 Dork
8/8/14 1:39 p.m.
NGTD wrote: I had a shop torque the lug nuts on to my BIL Dakota so hard that we couldn't budge them with a 2 ft breaker with a cheater, and all 230lbs of him jumping on the end. I mad him take it back to them and remove them. Idiots!

This is what happened to me when I had my tires rotated at a local dodge dealer. They had to replace 22 of 24 studs.

benzbaronDaryn
benzbaronDaryn Dork
8/8/14 5:28 p.m.

Being the nice son I am I checked my moms front brakes on her 2000 toyota corolla. Whoever ventured before me tightened the nuts on the drivers side tight enough so three studs/nuts stripped out and on the other side the car was missing one lugnut. Breaking the nuts was the easy part, I had to use spray lube and a breaker to remove the nuts all the way out. I was a bit pissed off, I didn't have all the tools with me so had to beat out bad studs with a hammer and hammer in new studs. That was a fun job, "It will only take an hour then I can go ride a motorcycle." No good deed goes unpunished.

MichaelYount
MichaelYount Reader
8/8/14 7:28 p.m.

It's a simple rule for me - no one else touches the lug nuts on any of our cars unless I'm watching/supervising. The stories related just serve to remind me just how much I hate having anyone else do any work on my cars.

pjbgravely
pjbgravely Reader
8/8/14 10:34 p.m.
MichaelYount wrote: It's a simple rule for me - no one else touches the lug nuts on any of our cars unless I'm watching/supervising. The stories related just serve to remind me just how much I hate having anyone else do any work on my cars.

I found a garage that would put lug nuts on with a battery impact, and then torque them, but after losing 2 hub caps I took them off before getting snows changed. Now I have 2 sets of wheels for each vehicle so no one has to touch them but me.

Kenny_McCormic
Kenny_McCormic PowerDork
8/8/14 10:55 p.m.
motomoron wrote: Put a little anti-seize on - just the barest smidgen - and torque properly.

One caveat here, if you are going to oil/grease/antiseixe wheel bolts/studs, DO NOT get any on the taper/seating surfaces, if you do they will not stay tight.

MichaelYount
MichaelYount Reader
8/9/14 4:48 a.m.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: One caveat here, if you are going to oil/grease/antiseixe wheel bolts/studs, DO NOT get any on the taper/seating surfaces, if you do they will not stay tight.

That has not been my experience.

Jerry
Jerry SuperDork
8/10/14 2:26 p.m.

Went to check the torque on all the lugs this morning. Guess how many I can't fit a 17mm socket onto? 13 of 16. Guess how many were replaced with new? 3 of 16.

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
8/10/14 8:05 p.m.

still amazes me that manufacturers still use the lug bolts....what a pain in the arse. All of my bmws got switched to standard studs long ago. Makes changing tires so much easier.

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