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  • Jensenman

    Dec. 3, 2009 8:16 p.m. Jensenman MegaDork

    Way back when, a girl I went to high school with had an orange Hornet with a light tan interior and white pinstripes. It was actually a pretty nice looking car, had a 290 V8 with automatic. Very much like this one but with hubcaps instead of the Cragars.

    It blew a radiator hose one morning and she cooked the 290. Her dad was not about to buy a new engine, so he started shopping around for something used. The only thing he could find was a wrecked AMC cop car with a 401 and 4 bbl, it was a drop in swap. That car had little 14" whitewalls and would fry them as long as you cared to hold the gas pedal down.

  • Woody

    Dec. 3, 2009 9:05 p.m. Woody SuperDork

    I miss Cragars.

  • Rob_Mopar

    Dec. 3, 2009 9:18 p.m. Rob_Mopar Reader

    Woody wrote:

    I miss Cragars.

    You don't have to. They still make them. I have a set on my Barracuda. Plus Cragar re-released them in an all aluminum version with specific bolt patterns, not unilugs. I'm really tempted to get an aluminum set for the fish.

    -Rob

  • Woody

    Dec. 3, 2009 9:31 p.m. Woody SuperDork

    Oh, I know that they're still available, but you just don't see them that often anymore. Nobody really puts 14 or 15 inch wheels on cars anymore. Any bigger than that and Cragars don't look right.

    I always wanted to put a set on an old Mercedes.

    And you almost never see Keystones...

  • Keith

    Dec. 3, 2009 10:39 p.m. Keith PowerDork

    If I'd been smart, I would have converted the MGB to a 5-bolt pattern so I could run Cragars.

  • Woody

    Dec. 3, 2009 10:40 p.m. Woody SuperDork

    Nothing's worse than four bolt Cragars.

  • modernbeat

    Dec. 3, 2009 10:52 p.m. modernbeat HalfDork

    Speaking of beige Gremlins, did anyone else check out this airbagged and suicide doored restoration at SEMA?

  • gamby

    Dec. 3, 2009 11:50 p.m. gamby UberDork

    modernbeat wrote:

    Speaking of beige Gremlins, did anyone else check out this airbagged and suicide doored restoration at SEMA?

    Perverse. I love it.

  • P71

    Dec. 4, 2009 8:12 a.m. P71 SuperDork

    That Gremlin is sweeeeeeet!

  • P71

    March 7, 2010 2:57 p.m. P71 UltraDork

    UPDATE!!!

    I've been fighting an electrical no-start for over a month now. I have replaced the battery, battery cables, ground straps, starter solenoid, starter cable, starter, voltage regulator, and ignition switch. The only way it'll start is with a bypass switch wired to the solenoid. At least it runs again...

    Anyways, I sold the all-original 232 I-6 and auto trans to a guy restoring a Rambler Convertible with his son ("m a sucker for those kind of projects) but the sale has financed a purchase of a parts car! I hope to drag home a V8 Concord in a week or so (304/Auto) that'll give me a V8 crossmember, stronger rear axle (Model 20 instead of Model 10), and some hopefully rust free rockers to weld into my Hornet (trivia time - the 2-door Hornet has the same wheelbase as the 4-door sedans and wagons and the Hornet, Gremlin, Concord, Spirit, and Eagle are all identical underneath). If the Concord deal falls through my dad just drug home a V8 Gremlin in Florida, so either way I should be able to start getting the 401 in!

    If the Concord works out I'll probably throw the 304/Auto in the Hornet for now to keep it driving why I rebuild the 401 and the T5.

  • P71

    March 7, 2010 3:05 p.m. P71 UltraDork

    I just realized I could potentially get the Hornet going for Challenge money!

    I traded a 4Bbl and a steering wheel for it, figure fair market value of $500. I sold the 232/A3 for $300. I bought a TBird for $200 and traded the engine (2.3T) for the 401 and bellhousing and sold the rest of the parts (for like $500). The WC T5 from the TBird is what I have for the 401 (correct AMC sized 10-spline input shaft). The Concord is $200 and I should be able to sell some stuff from that (plus what I take out of the Hornet for the V8) to make up some more.

    If I can finagle a running 360/727 I'd sell the 401 and then I'd really be in good shape to get this thing done... The T5 still needs some serious rebuilding to survive behind any AMC V8 but at least it's the correct case/shafts (also I have the bellhousing, clutch pedal assembly, and all of the clutch hydraulics plus a driveshaft).

  • ignorant

    March 7, 2010 3:38 p.m. ignorant UltimaDork

    That car will be a serious sleeper.

    The 401 is an awesome engine. Will a t5 hold that sucker?

    But, something newer and injected would give better daily driver mileage and the ability to really scare some folks....

  • Wally

    March 7, 2010 3:45 p.m. Wally PowerDork

    You could always inject the 401.

  • Wally

    March 7, 2010 3:49 p.m. Wally PowerDork

    Angry Hornet Racecar pic

  • pres589

    March 7, 2010 3:59 p.m. pres589 Reader

    Torque rating on the WC T5 is something around 300lb/ft. If you're very careful with it and run an open diff in the Model 20 then maybe. I think I'd start brewing up something else.

    Also, that Model 20 as built isn't very strong either. Woodruff keys do not belong on axle shafts. You probably already know this stuff so I'll leave it at that.

  • ignorant

    March 7, 2010 4:16 p.m. ignorant UltimaDork

    Ohhh btw.. Do not change anything on the aesthetics....

    I think your car would do awesome like the horsepower tv nova from a few years back.

  • P71

    March 7, 2010 4:24 p.m. P71 UltraDork

    The stock T-5 will not hold it. I plan on having it upgraded with stronger gears (and different ratios, a 3.47 1st is too much) before installing it. It was mainly getting the case with the right input shaft. It would probably live behind a stock one (even though they're 400+ Torques stock without emissions) but mine won't be

    You can inject an AMC, and I've thought about it, but this car won't be a DD at all, and we have an E85 station. I'm going high compression (11:1) and running it on corn juice through a carb! It ought to get like 5 MPG

    I know the Model 20 will die and the 10 doesn't stand a chance. Eventually I'd like to swap in a Mustang or Crown Vic 8.8" for disc brake goodness.

    And the HPTV Project Blue Hair is a total inspiration, as is the "Super Sleeper" Turbo Nova. Unfortunately I can't leave the paint alone, it's literally falling off of the car! I have to keep it from rusting (which AMC were experts in making them do) so it's going to be primer for now. I will eventually paint it some sort of 70's light green. I'm thinking Ford Lime Gold/Legend Lime still.

  • pres589

    March 7, 2010 5:42 p.m. pres589 Reader

    I've read that the Model 20 is really strong with different axle shafts. 31 spline Mosers and the proper limited slip and you'd be in business. Drums are lighter than discs and you don't have to swap stuff to get it under there.

    Do what you want, you know the gig. The AMC combustion chamber is fairly insensitve to detonation so this carb & E85 talk seems a little off... I just can't get behind installing a carb again if it can be helped. But then again I don't seem to actually work on cars so why am I talking?

    And paint the Hornet something unnatural, like white or silver, a dark grey maybe. Lime Gold? Do you hate the thing?

  • ignorant

    March 7, 2010 5:44 p.m. ignorant UltimaDork

    ohh Grey...

    That would look good.

  • P71

    March 7, 2010 6:24 p.m. P71 UltraDork

    The model 20 can be strong, but ultimately this car will be out on a road course so discs and a serviceable LSD are important. There's also a place that's making tubular 4-link/Watt's link setups for it...

    Using Edelbrock aluminum heads which have a modern chamber and aftermarket pistons. EFI is $$$$$$ for an AMC, a carb and manifold is a couple hundred. Plus if I ever get a wild idea I can swap pistons and slap a couple turbos on this thing for Captain Insano levels of power.

    I was thinking green because it is green. The engine bay will be black though, and half of the body panels are going to be fiberglass (hood, decklid, fenders, front and rear valances, bumpers) so I guess a color change wouldn't be any extra. I like dark gray... hmmm...

    Gloss jet black with a flat black Hornet SC/360 scoop dropped on 17" TT2's? Red/White/Blue? WRX Blue?

  • pres589

    March 7, 2010 6:46 p.m. pres589 Reader

    Flat black on gloss black will make people think you had to replace the hood and screwed the paint job up. Understood about the diff selection. Jr. Victor intake drilled for FI + MS + whatever parts needed to finish should help reduce cost. You want to take it on a road coarse and you're talking fuel slosh. Do what you have to do but a port injected 401 sounds a lot nicer to deal with overall. And the factory heads are supposed to be very detonation resistant, are the Edelbrock heads a close copy of that or are we into a whole new ball of wax with this issue?

    This grey + stock or flat black hood?

    I wish I knew the name of that color, I've always liked it.

  • P71

    March 7, 2010 8:46 p.m. P71 UltraDork

    The Hornet SC/360 scoop was flat from the factory, and it's not the whole hood, just the scoop:

    I do like the idea of a nice dark metallic gray though. It's one of those forgiving colors so I could try and shoot it myself.

    Factory heads are a shrouded "D" chamber. It takes massive porting and decking to get them properly shaped but then you have to run pop-ups. Edelbrock's and INDY's use modern "figure 8" chambers with small CC #'s. The E85 isn't for detonation, it's for octane. Eventually I want to do a turbo AMC so if I get it running well on E85 N/A first I'm half way there. I'm still thinking about building the motor 9:1 with forged pistons to start so it's ready for boost when I make the switch. The problem is AMC's are very exhaust temperamental so I think the turbo(s) might not work well. I've always loved twin-screw blowers...

  • pres589

    March 7, 2010 8:59 p.m. pres589 Reader

    Ah, I though this flat black talk was 'Cuda or Capri RS style, like this;

    I do prefer the idea of a small chamber in the head and a flat to dished piston, heavy pop-ups that block flame propagation aren't really a big turn on. I'd heard the chambers on the AMC V8's (and probably some of their other engines) were a good, detonation resistant design. And octane = detonation resistance, so I'm not sure why you tried to draw a distinction between the two. My fuels instructor in college told us that the higher the octane, the slower the burn and potentially less chemical power available in the fuel. And there's definitely fewer chemical BTU's in ethanol vs. your average 87 octane pump gas. I think I'd try to build to commonly available pump gas like 91 octane (I don't know where you are, I'm in Denver now and the best around seems to be 89 most places). That's me though, I don't relish the idea of finding special fuel and spending what might be a special price for the stuff (and my father raises corn so you'd think I'd be all about using more alcohol).

    That grey with a black hood scoop, the white side striping, and the right wheels would look pretty good I think. Panasports? Torq-Thrust D's with the dark centers?

  • P71

    March 7, 2010 9:54 p.m. P71 UltraDork

    Oh I'm with you on the non-power in E85. The thing is we have it here in town (for cheaper than 87) and it has ~115 RON so it's excellent for boosted apps. I haven't made up my mind yet (and I certainly couldn't do any boosted AMC on a Challenge budget). Sometimes I think a nice 10.5:1 motor on 87 or 89 would be plenty for me (plus cheaper to build/maintain).

    I'm liking that gray idea more and more. I think the stripe would have to be something different than white. Definitely Torque Thrusts with matching gray centers. My big problem with non-green is that my interior is green and it's damn near mint. It would be a major expense to rip it all out and replace it and I would honestly feel bad dyeing it. That's why I have been stuck on light green:

    A darker green could work:

    AMC had a really nice Hunter Green and Forest Green. There's also the AMC medium green:

    Maybe white with a green stinger stripe?

    Here's a Hemming's article on a nearly-identical car (with the same SC/401 plans): http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2009/05/01/hmn_buyers_guide1.html

  • ignorant

    March 8, 2010 4:46 a.m. ignorant UltimaDork

    CT uss a non metallic boring gray for their state patrol cars.. That would be a good color for the sleeper.

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