d_jabsd Reader
Sept. 2, 2009 8:17 a.m.
BenBeenBanned@VWVortex said: Some of you might appreciate this. Machinist's Workshop magazine tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts. They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker. They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment. *Penetrating oil ..... Average load* None ...................... 516 pounds WD-40 ................... 238 pounds PB Blaster ............... 214 pounds Liquid Wrench ......... 127 pounds Kano Kroil .............. 106 pounds ATF-Acetone mix.......53 pounds The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.

I stumbled across this this morning and thought you all might be interested in the findings.

mad_machine SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 8:41 a.m.

this thread has potential to "go there" but I like the idea of the home brewed stuff.

Carson Dork
Sept. 2, 2009 8:57 a.m.

Oh it went there...the first 3 or 4 times it was posted.

has anyone tried the home-brew? I keep meaning to but normally I just grab the Kroil off the shelf, or floor.

Apexcarver SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 9:54 a.m.

who else cringed when the clicked on this thread?

Cotton Reader
Sept. 2, 2009 10:01 a.m.

I must have missed the last threads on this topic.....sounds like they were interesting.

SVreX SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 10:02 a.m.
Apexcarver wrote: who else cringed when the clicked on this thread?

I was excited.

SVreX SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 10:11 a.m.

Actually, it's a kind of interesting study. We use ALL that stuff, and have always liked ATF particularly for soaking stuff that's REALLY stuck (like successfully un-freezing "frozen" blocks rotating assemblies later put back into service), but we never mixed the ATF with the Acetone.

Stand by. I'll let you know how it works.

Xceler8x Dork
Sept. 2, 2009 11:53 a.m.
SVreX wrote: ...and have always liked ATF particularly for soaking stuff that's REALLY stuck (like successfully un-freezing "frozen" blocks rotating assemblies later put back into service), but we never mixed the ATF with the Acetone.

Just curious...when you unfreeze those rotating assemblies would you rebuild them before putting them "back into service"?

Not a judgment I'm just curious if you can unfreeze bearings, fire up the motor, and expect them to last. If you can that's freaking awesome!

belteshazzar SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 11:54 a.m.

i love grm

Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 11:58 a.m.

ATF and acetone sounds awfully messy. When I know I'm going to tear apart a suspension, exhaust, etc. (ESPECIALLY on a rusty car) I'll go to town with my hand-pump bottle of WD40 on every fastener I can see. When this stuff drips on the floor, it's not that big of a deal. It also isn't much of an issue when it drips onto the chassis and such. However, I can't imagine how messy my floor and the car would be if I used ATF instead.

I think this ATF+acetone mix is one you'd only use if you had a VERY stubborn fastener, but not as an all-around spray like WD40. I think that's WD40's shining aspect, that it can be used for soooo many things, from cleaning to displacing water to lubricating. I'll have to try this ATF mix out next time I'm working on a stubborn fastener though, I've got a quart of mystery ATF that was in a used car I got that will be perfect for the job.

Bryce

SVreX SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 12:04 p.m.

You are asking two different questions. "Back into service" and "expect them to last" are probably not necessarily the same thing.

I can't speak to the "expect them to last". This is GRM, a place where a guy who builds 10 second cars laps his valves with a belt sander.

I can only say that I have unfrozen several motors which had been given up on because they were "frozen" (rusted internals to the point where the rotating assembly could not be rotated) without a rebuild.

It takes a lot of patience, and a lot of ATF, but it's pretty grassroots.

Free motor, some ATF. I never really cared about "expect them to last", so I don't know.

Autolex Reader
Sept. 2, 2009 12:07 p.m.
16vCorey SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 12:08 p.m.
Xceler8x wrote:
SVreX wrote: ...and have always liked ATF particularly for soaking stuff that's REALLY stuck (like successfully un-freezing "frozen" blocks rotating assemblies later put back into service), but we never mixed the ATF with the Acetone.

Just curious...when you unfreeze those rotating assemblies would you rebuild them before putting them "back into service"?

Not a judgment I'm just curious if you can unfreeze bearings, fire up the motor, and expect them to last. If you can that's freaking awesome!

I don't think I'd try it with anything with seized bearings, as they are sure to score everything, but I have freed up engines that were locked up solid due to rust in the cylinders and ran them. Hell, my '71 CB750 had sat outside for a while and two of the spark plugs apparently didn't seal properly, and it rusted up. It was stuck for years. I poured ATF and Kroil in the spark plug holes and I let it soak for a while and eventually I got it spinning free. When I started it up it smoked like crazy (obviously), but ran pretty good. It intermitantly smoked for a couple of weeks until the rings re-seated, and now it runs great!

kreb Dork
Sept. 2, 2009 1:18 p.m.

I wonder how the "cocktail" would work on a locked rotor Wankel?

EricM HalfDork
Sept. 2, 2009 1:21 p.m.
Apexcarver wrote: who else cringed when the clicked on this thread?

I didn't cringe, I was looking forward to what it might entail, but alas, I was dissapointed. Oh well...

(insert really bad penitration joke here)

Sept. 2, 2009 2:22 p.m.
Apexcarver wrote: who else cringed when the clicked on this thread?

raises hand

Dr. Hess SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 2:48 p.m.

kreb, I thought Wankle engines required ATF down the vacuum lines to start normally.

erohslc Reader
Sept. 2, 2009 3:34 p.m.

Hmm, don't see Astroglide on that list ....

(OK, somebody had to say it)

benzbaron Reader
Sept. 2, 2009 3:54 p.m.

Every 2 years I get to unstick the smog pump, this time I said to hell with the thing and took it off and packed it in grease. I'll get some cheap ATF and give it a try if it is stuck come december. My only worry would be spilling some of it and thinking my car is leaking ATF.

peter New Reader
Sept. 2, 2009 5:16 p.m.

my only beef with this is whether the fastener was soaked in a bath of the stuff, or simply sprayed with it.

if parts are small and off the car, yeah, ATF+acetone might be nice. But if it's that fastener way back in some dark unreachable corner, I don't know how I'm going to hit it unless I've got my can of PB Blaster.

foxtrapper SuperDork
Sept. 2, 2009 5:50 p.m.
Carson wrote: has anyone tried the home-brew?

Yes. It doesn't mix, you have to constantly shake it to keep it broken up and suspended.

Penetration is nominal, probably due to the rapid evaporation of the non-mixing acetone.

Application is difficult without a spray can.

YaNi Reader
Sept. 2, 2009 8:47 p.m.
kreb wrote: I wonder how the "cocktail" would work on a locked rotor Wankel?

ATF is very bad on the seals, but it wouldn't hurt trying on a motor that otherwise would need a rebuild. Just don't use it for carbon cleaning.

doc_speeder New Reader
Sept. 3, 2009 12:40 a.m.

Of the stuff tested, Liquid Wrench is always my first choice. Dirt cheap and it really does work well, and it's non flamable, which is handy. On really stuck stuff, I spray it, heat it, then hit it with some more spray, and I don't recall the last time I was defeated by this method.

1slowcrx Reader
Sept. 3, 2009 1:44 a.m.

That is sooo cool. Never thought of the ATF acetone mix.

Sounds like a great idea. Pretty close to the price of a good PB blaster can.

How did you guys spray it? Just out of a trigger spray bottle?

John Brown SuperDork
Sept. 3, 2009 6:19 a.m.
Autolex wrote: REPOST!

Thanks Lex

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