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NickD
NickD Reader
1/6/16 11:59 a.m.
Robbie wrote: at least in the miata you don't have to tell other people you drive a porsche.... kicks hornet nest and runs away

Hah, good one

SEADave
SEADave HalfDork
1/6/16 1:10 p.m.

Honestly, this is what I have always like about the used car market. For right or for wrong, every used car settles down to value that buyers as a whole think that they are worth. The trick is to find cars where the value to you is more than the value to everyone else.

There are plenty of cars that at one point weren't terribly interesting to me that suddenly become very interesting once their value gets low enough. On the other hand, some cars I might otherwise be interested in (aircooled 911's) are clearly worth more to other people then they would be to me, so I pass.

If you feel a $6k Boxster is a better value than a $6k Miata, then maybe it is time to buy.

T.J.
T.J. UltimaDork
1/6/16 1:35 p.m.

I would personally pay more for a NA/NB Miata than a older Boxster. I never liked them until the latest generation, so I doubt I would buy one at any price.

calteg
calteg Dork
1/6/16 2:00 p.m.

I guess I let my low mileage NA go too cheaply: '95 with 55k, sold it for $5500.

Count me in the camp that would rather have a pristine NA than a "cheap" boxster

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
1/6/16 2:26 p.m.

An 90's well cared for Miata has reached the point where you could buy a good one and sell it five years later for the same money. That is a good deal. The same situation is not going to happen with the Porsche. In the same five years, the Porsche will have sucked your wallet dry for the duration of ownership. Perhaps it is this surgical removal of funds from your wallet that leads people to use the word "scalpel" when referring to the Porsche

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/6/16 2:56 p.m.
NickD wrote:
Robbie wrote: at least in the miata you don't have to tell other people you drive a porsche.... kicks hornet nest and runs away

Hah, good one

The mandatory rainbow flag tells everyone you drive a Miata.....

(stands tall and takes it like a man...no wait a minute)

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/6/16 3:04 p.m.

I think there is more drop left in the Boxster, and I think the Miata is bouncing, but without reason. There isn't a particular demand and although the argument could be made that they aren't made anymore but it just got voided with the ND. I know it is new but the NC grew and the ND returned to original form.

I get the reliability scares with the Porsche but it is bigger on the inside, more powerful and better handling and has more potential.

Miata is a wonderful car, but the Porsche just turns it up a notch or two.

It is the used market so who knows. People know they have taxes about to hit and credit card bills from the Holidays.

Tyler H
Tyler H SuperDork
1/6/16 3:11 p.m.
Tom_Spangler wrote: Owned a Miata and drove many. Drove a Boxster a few times. Boxster all the freaking way. And the badge has nothing to do with it. Mid-engine > Front-engine, period. And the extra power doesn't hurt, either.

I've done both too...kept anywhere near stock and I'd prefer the Boxster, based on the drive alone. Just like 944s and 914s before, Boxsters wear the stigma of the "cheap Porsche" like Miata wears the stigma of "hairdressers car" and it's BS in both cases. I'm glad 944s are coming around, and clean NA Miatas are appreciating.

The Miata is a way safer place to put your money. Short of running it into a tree, there's no potential for catastrophic, instantaneous depreciation. Plus, you get affordable mods.

In the Miata camp -- you can rescue a neglected Miata. You can't do that with a neglected Boxster. Buying a German car, stay out of the shallow end of the price pool.

Short of the fact that they're 2-seat convertibles, these cars are nothing alike. I'll take mid-engine with some torque. Or a frankenmiata.

Raze
Raze UltraDork
1/6/16 3:30 p.m.

I'd rather have a beater corvette...oh wait

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
1/6/16 3:52 p.m.

The IMS failure on early Boxsters is real, and frightening. I think this is part of the reason they are so cheap. If the IMS hasn't been repaired correctly the cars are a big risk. Of course, if it has been updated (fixed) they are pretty fantastic machines to drive. The sound they make alone is almost worth the potential risks.

I'd be very wary of low-mileage Boxsters though. A neighbor of my folks has an 2002 Boxster with extremely low mileage--- 45K or so. She travels a lot, so the car sits for extended periods of time. Each time she returns home, the car goes into the shop, and comes out with a $2K-$3K repair bill. Granted, she's taking it to the dealer, so prices are exorbitant, but still.........this happens nearly every time she returns home. Porsches don't like to sit idle.

I'd also have to disagree with the potential for each car. The Miata aftermarket is massive, and your options are really only limited by your imagination. To improve a Boxster from it's stock form.......you'd better have a thick checkbook.

Boost_Crazy
Boost_Crazy Reader
1/6/16 4:12 p.m.

Don't forget that the GRM crowd is a tiny slice of the Miata market. The first Miatas are over 25 years old. Old enough that original owners who sold their cars years ago are back in the market for their old car. Like the Mazda ND commercial, but they can buy "their" old car for relatively cheap.

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
1/6/16 4:35 p.m.
Boost_Crazy wrote: Don't forget that the GRM crowd is a tiny slice of the Miata market. The first Miatas are over 25 years old. Old enough that original owners who sold their cars years ago are back in the market for their old car. Like the Mazda ND commercial, but they can buy "their" old car for relatively cheap.

^So true, and it would so happen that I myself would be one of that mentioned demographic. Typical story....

My inner self said:

"Bought one of first Miatas sold while sowing my wild oats, met wife unit, chased the wind and sun all over North America for two years and raised a child in the front seat." "Sold car after ten years and pined for it ever since"

When I see a super clean NA for sale for under 10k I am always tempted to get rid of the MGB GT and swap for the Miata. 10k wont restore a shell on an MGB anymore hence the Miata represents amazing value since you can actually drive them.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/6/16 4:41 p.m.

I had a 1994 black on black NA and loved it, but life said it had to go so I sold it for what I bought it for. $3k in $3k out with nothing but gas, oil changes, and a heater hose. (stupid heater hose)

I would like to do that again, but I am not going to drop $10k on a 1.8l NA. Not gonna happen

M030
M030 Dork
1/6/16 5:02 p.m.

In reply to RedGT: It appears to be regional. Here in Massachusetts, my 90k-mile, fully upgraded, 1997 model was a good deal at $5300, but in Los Angeles, that same five grand gets you a nice 2000-model and E36 M3ty early cars with high mileage or automatics are routinely found on Craigslist for $2500. I want to add that as a Teutonic crapcan junkie, I doubt anyone really gets $5000 or better for their 944 (turbos, S2s and concourse low mileage cars excepted)

Vigo
Vigo PowerDork
1/6/16 5:51 p.m.

I bought a running NA for $400 last october-ish and drove it home. If i could have purchased a running Boxster i would have. Got it DD'able (other than the lack of a top or HVAC of any sort), put some 15s and aggressive tires i had on it, put an aggressive alignment on it. You know, made it a pretty good little fair weather sports car. Drove it a bit..

And then traded it for a non-running microsquirted 924. And if I could have traded it for a Boxster, i would have. So in that sense, Boxsters and NA Miatas are in a whole different ballpark of price range since i can buy a running miata under a grand and the cheapest running Boxster i've seen locally was $3900.

I've been watching Boxster prices for a long time. They are getting to a place that makes me really happy. Or would, if it existed in a vacuum all by itself. But it doesn't, and the problem I'm having now that Boxsters are cheap enough, is the fact that a 996 seems just as cheap relative to its overall coolness and isn't THAT much more expensive.. I stare at 996 listings in deep thought and consternation on a regular basis. Almost makes me wish they were expensive enough to still be happy that Boxsters are cheap.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
1/6/16 6:18 p.m.
NickD wrote:
MadScientistMatt wrote: The Boxster engines also have a reputation as ticking time bombs that the Miata engines (except the early "short nose crank" 1.6s) don't have. There is a fix, but it's a bit expensive.

I overheard two Boxster owners conversing at an autocross about how their pair of 50,000 mile Boxsters burned oil at a horrifying rate. One was saying he was going through a quart every 1,000 miles and changing the oil to a heavier weight got it down to a quart every 1,500. The other said he would have to look into it because he was going through a quart and a half every 1,000. Yikes!

Meanwhile, my Miata with over twice the mileage (And under half the cost) uses about a half quart every 3,000 and that's from a weepy rear main seal. Our old blue GMT-400 with 300,000 on the clock only used a quart in 5,000 and once again, that was more leakage than burning.

So, your vertical, iron block engines use less oil than horizontally-opposed all aluminum engines.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/6/16 7:59 p.m.

I think we need to come to the realization that Miatas are becoming valuable.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
1/6/16 8:29 p.m.
Joe Gearin wrote: The IMS failure on early Boxsters is real, and frightening.

I have never seen an IMS failure but I did get real good at rebuilding the tops when they break. Sometimes when they break they bend the inner fender as well. One was mangled so bad that I had to remove the side scoop and weld bracing to keep it from oilcanning when the top was actuated.

I always figured that the Cayman was Porsche's fix for Boxster top problems. It is a NEAT device when it works, Porsche turned a simple rotating motion into both "top up" and "top down"... but they used a single motor to drive two big fat square cables (like a 2:1 scale speedo cable) and when one side breaks, the motor keeps turning and things get... expensive.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/6/16 9:34 p.m.
Appleseed wrote: I think we need to come to the realization that Miatas are becoming valuable.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/6/16 9:35 p.m.

Who am I kidding I can't buy a video game right now much less a car...lol

NOHOME
NOHOME PowerDork
1/6/16 9:45 p.m.
Flight Service wrote: Who am I kidding I can't buy a video game right now much less a car...lol

LOL

gamby
gamby UltimaDork
1/6/16 10:39 p.m.

Boxster maintenance/repair costs will likely keep prices low for the foreseeable future.

Miata maintenance/repair costs??? Much less than an old Porsche.

Cotton
Cotton UberDork
1/6/16 11:25 p.m.

Make mine the boxster s. It's worth the premium imo.

M030
M030 Dork
1/7/16 9:21 a.m.

NMNA:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/5355672660.html

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim UltimaDork
1/7/16 9:49 a.m.
Joe Gearin wrote: A neighbor of my folks has an 2002 Boxster with extremely low mileage--- 45K or so. She travels a lot, so the car sits for extended periods of time. Each time she returns home, the car goes into the shop, and comes out with a $2K-$3K repair bill. Granted, she's taking it to the dealer, so prices are exorbitant, but still.........this happens nearly every time she returns home. Porsches don't like to sit idle.

I think it's a case of "Porsches like to go to the shop". My 996 does get used, yet it does seem to want to hang out at the local Porsche specialist at least every second month.

I'm beginning to wonder if they're running a book on when they'll see that thing next...

Agree on the IMS bearing issue being real, but there are a bunch more issues with these engines that can eat up your wallet that have nothing to do with the IMS bearing.

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