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Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler UltraDork
1/7/16 9:52 a.m.

Here's the thing about the IMS: You can fix it and make it 90% likely to go away. It's not easy or cheap, but once it's done, you can probably forget about it, and you've increased the resale value of the car.

dculberson
dculberson UberDork
1/7/16 10:06 a.m.
Flight Service wrote: I think there is more drop left in the Boxster, and I think the Miata is bouncing, but without reason. There isn't a particular demand

No particular demand for the Miata?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spec_Miata

The most popular club racing series in the US. Lots of cars turned into race cars and lots of them wrecked.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/7/16 10:20 a.m.
dculberson wrote:
Flight Service wrote: I think there is more drop left in the Boxster, and I think the Miata is bouncing, but without reason. There isn't a particular demand

No particular demand for the Miata?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spec_Miata

The most popular club racing series in the US. Lots of cars turned into race cars and lots of them wrecked.

215,364 NAs built 93,941 NBs and "over 3,000 Spec Miata kits sold" We will say 3,000.

3000/(215,364 + 93,941)=0.97% so for arguments sake 1%, not to mention all it takes is a statement like "Spec Miata will now accept the NC chassis with XYZ options with 2,*** minimum weight." Since it already accepts two chassis codes and there are alot of NCs out there not much more than the NA/NB cars now.

Given the equation of 9.5 lbs = 1 HP rule, (167-133)*9.5= 323 lb weight penalty over a 1.8 NA

Which given some of us fat guys, that might be the ticket to sell the next 3,000 kits

NickD
NickD Reader
1/7/16 10:31 a.m.
Knurled wrote:
NickD wrote:
MadScientistMatt wrote: The Boxster engines also have a reputation as ticking time bombs that the Miata engines (except the early "short nose crank" 1.6s) don't have. There is a fix, but it's a bit expensive.

I overheard two Boxster owners conversing at an autocross about how their pair of 50,000 mile Boxsters burned oil at a horrifying rate. One was saying he was going through a quart every 1,000 miles and changing the oil to a heavier weight got it down to a quart every 1,500. The other said he would have to look into it because he was going through a quart and a half every 1,000. Yikes!

Meanwhile, my Miata with over twice the mileage (And under half the cost) uses about a half quart every 3,000 and that's from a weepy rear main seal. Our old blue GMT-400 with 300,000 on the clock only used a quart in 5,000 and once again, that was more leakage than burning.

So, your vertical, iron block engines use less oil than horizontally-opposed all aluminum engines.

I don't care what engine layout it is, short of a rotary or a 2-stroke, no engine with 50,000 miles on the clock should use 1+ quart every 1,000 miles. Plus, the Subaru EJ251 in my sister's Forester that I maintain is an aluminum flat-4 with 125,000 miles and that uses less than a quart every 5,000.

rslifkin
rslifkin New Reader
1/7/16 10:49 a.m.

A quart every thousand is definitely a bit excessive. But some engines do use some oil by their design / nature, especially when run hard. There have been some where a quart in 2 - 3k is entirely normal if you drive it hard.

dculberson
dculberson UberDork
1/7/16 11:22 a.m.
Flight Service wrote: 215,364 NAs built 93,941 NBs and "over 3,000 Spec Miata kits sold" We will say 3,000.

Where did you get the 3,000 figure from and what is a "Spec Miata kit?"

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/7/16 11:46 a.m.
dculberson wrote:
Flight Service wrote: 215,364 NAs built 93,941 NBs and "over 3,000 Spec Miata kits sold" We will say 3,000.

Where did you get the 3,000 figure from and what is a "Spec Miata kit?"

They were corroborating your position, but 3000 of any particular race series is alot.

dculberson
dculberson UberDork
1/7/16 12:34 p.m.
Flight Service wrote:
dculberson wrote:
Flight Service wrote: 215,364 NAs built 93,941 NBs and "over 3,000 Spec Miata kits sold" We will say 3,000.

Where did you get the 3,000 figure from and what is a "Spec Miata kit?"

They were corroborating your position, but 3000 of any particular race series is alot.

Gotcha - I guess they mean suspension kits? There's no official "spec miata in a box" kits or anything that I know of, that's why I asked.

3,000 pinatas going around a track can easily clean over ten thousand cars off the road supporting them. That's not a lot compared to the total production run but it's a pressure that Boxsters don't have.

LuxInterior
LuxInterior Reader
1/7/16 12:54 p.m.

Mods: Please change title to "Official Boxster Bashin' Miata Guys Thread "

NickD
NickD HalfDork
1/7/16 1:16 p.m.
LuxInterior wrote: Mods: Please change title to "Official Boxster Bashin' Miata Guys Thread "

Yeah, ouch

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/7/16 1:59 p.m.

Hey, I was in favor of the Boxster here and I started the thread.

I think the Audi 4.2 into the Boxster will be a hot ticket once the electrics are sorted. Smaller than any LS and lighter too, (within 30lbs of the original flat six from what I can find) 300+hp (340hp is stock on some models) in the reliable, front belt not rear timing chain model. They sound great and rev to 7k+ (peak power is in the high 6s to 7 so nic, peak power is about 700 rpm above the boxster so no big torque hits downlow which helps with the gear box) They bolt straight up to the boxster transaxle.

Fits in the hole, engine is cheap and reliable and plentiful and no one will do it because the electrics give everyone the heebie jeebies...

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/8/16 8:14 a.m.
dculberson wrote:
Flight Service wrote: 215,364 NAs built 93,941 NBs and "over 3,000 Spec Miata kits sold" We will say 3,000.

Where did you get the 3,000 figure from and what is a "Spec Miata kit?"

From the NASA 2016 Showroom Spec Miata rule book..."MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development "Spec Miata kit" (part number K-SPEC-M5SUSP) "

Kramer
Kramer Dork
1/8/16 9:25 a.m.

What I'm hearing is Japanese reliability is better than German engineering. At least with these two cars

NickD
NickD HalfDork
1/8/16 10:23 a.m.
Kramer wrote: What I'm hearing is Japanese reliability is better than German engineering. At least with these two cars

I've never been much impressed with German Engineering in any instance.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/8/16 10:49 a.m.

Making things unnecessarily complicated in not a sign of good engineering.

NickD
NickD HalfDork
1/8/16 11:02 a.m.
Appleseed wrote: Making things unnecessarily complicated in not a sign of good engineering.

What's the joke? If you asked a German to design a hammer, it'd have no fewer than 5 moving parts

kazoospec
kazoospec SuperDork
1/8/16 11:34 a.m.
Flight Service wrote: I had a 1994 black on black NA and loved it, but life said it had to go so I sold it for what I bought it for. $3k in $3k out with nothing but gas, oil changes, and a heater hose. (stupid heater hose) I would like to do that again, but I am not going to drop $10k on a 1.8l NA. Not gonna happen

You're just shopping in the wrong "neighborhoods" if you think you have to spend 10K on a decent NA. Try Michigan craigslists around November (when everyone realizes they have to have a place to store the toy they bought in June) and you'll be amazed at the deals you can get. Last year a friend of mine bought a 1995 M Edition, sub-100K miles and in clean/very clean driver condition for 1/2 that. The 10K examples around here are low mile limited editions, and there's really no reason why anyone would buy one of those. (Lets be honest, even in 20 years there won't be Miatas at Pebble Beach)

LuxInterior
LuxInterior Reader
1/8/16 1:51 p.m.

I like the idea of cheap Boxster ownership. I'm just not sure about the reality. Who here's bought a budget Boxster and put a bunch of miles on it? How's that working out?

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
1/8/16 2:51 p.m.
kazoospec wrote:
Flight Service wrote: I had a 1994 black on black NA and loved it, but life said it had to go so I sold it for what I bought it for. $3k in $3k out with nothing but gas, oil changes, and a heater hose. (stupid heater hose) I would like to do that again, but I am not going to drop $10k on a 1.8l NA. Not gonna happen

You're just shopping in the wrong "neighborhoods" if you think you have to spend 10K on a decent NA. Try Michigan craigslists around November (when everyone realizes they have to have a place to store the toy they bought in June) and you'll be amazed at the deals you can get. Last year a friend of mine bought a 1995 M Edition, sub-100K miles and in clean/very clean driver condition for 1/2 that. The 10K examples around here are low mile limited editions, and there's really no reason why anyone would by one of those. (Lets be honest, even in 20 years there won't be Miatas at Pebble Beach)

We motorcyclists say "Buy in the fall, sell in the spring" for that exact reason.

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/9/16 11:05 a.m.

And that's why I am shopping now

Flight Service
Flight Service MegaDork
1/9/16 4:11 p.m.

In DC, they aren't rare or exotic. I also check Atlanta, Memphis, and Miami. Mobile Alabama seemed to be somewhat back where they should be with a few "dreamers"

Is what it is. When I do this one, I will go to the bank and get the funds I am willing to pay. Take it or leave it, there it is in green backs. Their choice, no hard feelings either way. IME that tends to change the price drastically.

M030
M030 Dork
1/9/16 5:55 p.m.

Luxinterior wrote:

I like the idea of cheap Boxster ownership. I'm just not sure about the reality. Who here's bought a budget Boxster and put a bunch of miles on it? How's that working out?

In reply to LuxInterior:

I've done just that. I bought my 97 model in 2008, and I spent a bunch of money upfront on upgrades. Before I even registered it, I did an LN Engineering IMS bearing, the latest version of Porsche's "updated" rear main seal, a Porsche Motorsports air-oil separator, a 175-degree thermostat, metal-impeller water pump and a flush of all fluids. It's been trouble-free for 30k miles, most on the street , but some of them on track. In all, I spent about $3500 on upgrades because I did the vast majority of the work myself (I shopped out the cooling system stuff because bleeding the system is a bitch). I've spent $0 since, and the car has been great! Now that they can be had in the $5000 range, the affordable and reliable Boxster is an attainable thing. I LOVE my Boxster and I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat, though I'd start With an S if I were to do it again.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 SuperDork
1/9/16 6:12 p.m.

After reading the article the mag did, there's no way in hell I'm owning a Boxster. Even without the IMS failure, it's too many flaws to even consider for me. I am open to racing/driving someone else's, however.

I'm getting an 818 over the Boxster.

M030
M030 Dork
1/9/16 7:12 p.m.

Knurled
Knurled MegaDork
1/9/16 7:59 p.m.
Tom_Spangler wrote: Here's the thing about the IMS: You can fix it and make it 90% likely to go away. It's not easy or cheap, but once it's done, you can probably forget about it, and you've increased the resale value of the car.

And you can make an RX-8 engine last far longer if you add about 8 ounces of two-stroke oil to every tank of fuel, which costs even less.

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