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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Per's Going Pro piece

Jan. 14, 2011 4:24 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

I just got my mag and made it to DAVID'S latest write-up. It was completely depressing. Not because it is poorly written or off-base either. It is depressing because it is 100% accurate.

I have been on a nostalgic trip thru old F1, touring car, motorcycle GP and a pile of other old racing videos of late and I can't help but think of all the superb men and a few women who would not be allowed the opportunity to do what we loved watching them do in the advertising dollar ruled racing of today.

Can you imagine what would happen if a driver jumped out of their car on a hot track and punched an official in the snot locker today? Can you picture the response from AJ Foyt if he was required to sing on a TV commercial in order to drive the Indy 500? How about a modern Villanuve tuning his own championship car seconds before the start? None of those guys would even have a sponsor willing to take a look in today's world.

Sad, really. I know somebody thought bringing all that money into the game was the only way to keep it going... but it didn't make the racing any better than the days when Jim Clark drove an old Cortina sideways. They didn't have or make a lot of money - but they still showed up to race.

EDITED: To correct a case of mistaken identity. Apologies David. Not sure how I messed that one up.
Jan. 14, 2011 4:44 p.m. mndsm SuperDork

I think of guys like Smokey Yunick- best cheater ever invented. Technically didn't cheat either, just had the best interpretation of rules I've ever seen. I like that style of racing, where it truly is run what ya brung, and not "Run what you were told to bring by this giant stack of useless rules". Racing was born from outlaws and n'er do-wells, not from corporate goobers. I think we need a return to that.
Jan. 14, 2011 5:57 p.m. naparsei New Reader

It certainly took money to race in the 1960s. Jim Clark owned a Triumph and then a Porsche as an amateur. People bought rides in F1, FIA, Trans/Am, etc. Cars are expensive, transportation is expensive, parts/consumables are expensive. To be a pro, you had to line up money or be "that good". James Hunt was good enough to be World Champion, but he was really lucky too, in terms of getting a ride.

In some ways, it's easier today... sponsorship is probably just as hard to come by as always, but there are several ladder programs or driver development programs that just didn't exist in the past.

The drivers probably were able to exhibit more character back then because everything they did wasn't going to get posted to YouTube 10 seconds later. Hunt punched a guy pretty hard on TV in the UK during a race. Kimi probably has quite the personality, you just never saw it because he felt the destructive power of the media early in his career; so he just shut up and never said anything interesting again on TV.
Jan. 14, 2011 6:45 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

naparsei wrote:

Kimi probably has quite the personality, you just never saw it because he felt the destructive power of the media early in his career; so he just shut up and never said anything interesting again on TV.

I'll agree there. Kimi is on record as a fan of Hunt and Hesketh's style. He even snuck away between races (I think in 06) and registered for a snowmobile race against team orders under the name James Hunt. I am sure his complete lack of personality is due to a contract that forbids showing any. It probably says never say "I was having a schit" on TV again.

As far as the money stuff - yeah, racing has always been expensive - but it was not controlled by sponsorship and it was expensive but not EXPENSIVE. There was a time when professional race cars - Formula Atlantics were pulled behind an old Ford pickup on an open trailer. There was still room for a wealthy individual to make his own car and race it. Guys like Gurney & Hesketh would never even try today. F1 are 500M euro/yr efforts with a staff of 5000. I'd love to Penske's budget just for the 24. It is a whole, stifling order of magnitude larger than it was then but I really don't think it's better (thru my rose colored glasses anyway).
Jan. 14, 2011 7:11 p.m. Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director

That was David's excellent column. I liked it too.
Jan. 14, 2011 8:18 p.m. fifty Reader

I haven't read David's column yet (I'm sure it's excellent), but I've never thought of pro level racing as an affordable pursuit. Circle track maybe, but not road racing. In my eyes it's always been a gentleman's sport (I just finished reading "Go Like Hell" BTW, which was awesome!).

Even in the 1950s when it was more "affordable", most people lived on survival wages and could never fathom running at LeMans, let alone the local track or air strip. Wages and living conditions have since shot thru' the ceiling, and racing reflects that. Sport generally also used to be considered a "pastime" and now it's a "profession". That's not just motorsports.

The rule set of Formula 1 could theoretically contain costs, but it's Formula ONE, ie the bleeding edge of racing. Being avant garde ain't cheap. If you want almost affordable, I think World Challenge just tweaked their rule set for that reason.
Jan. 14, 2011 9:31 p.m. Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork

Per Schroeder wrote:

That was David's excellent column. I liked it too.

Apologies to David. That was kind of an inexcusable mistake. Sorry.
Jan. 14, 2011 9:53 p.m. Wonkothesane Reader

Yep, the problem with racing is that there's no way to break into it unless you have piles of money...

Oh, wait: http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-500-craigslist-car-beat-400k-rally-racers :)
Jan. 14, 2011 11:14 p.m. HiTempguy HalfDork

Wonkothesane wrote:

Yep, the problem with racing is that there's no way to break into it unless you have piles of money...

Oh, wait: http://jalopnik.com/5497042/how-a-500-craigslist-car-beat-400k-rally-racers :)

Actually, if you would read how much money he put into his BMW, it was more than most people spend on their first group 2 car. And you have to consider he did most if not all of his labour (or had people chip in) which is a huge reduction in expenditures when building a race-car yourself. A $3k + cage is $1k or less if you have the talent. And he "finished" 3rd in a class where only 3 finished.

I have nothing against Bill, I don't know him, I am sure he is a great guy, but the whole amazingness of his story is almost a fallacy, not that people are lied to, but they aren't given the whole story. He himself actually alludes to these things many times in interviews with him, but people gloss over it and romanticize his efforts. Again, not that they are not worthy of romanticizing, but the guy had a lot of time/money on his hands most po' folk could only dream of. I can build a $500 car (if rust free) into a rally champion (93 awd Impreza shell) if I then proceeded to bleed cubic truckloads of money and time all over it. Actually, with the way the privateers did in Canada this year, you could probably scratch the money part of that (cause they are awesome!) and challenge the championship with a $30k car (you have to be one hell of a driver though)...
Jan. 15, 2011 2:20 a.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

Thanks for the nice words.

For what it's worth, I got to watch Patrick in action last weekend. When a group of people started hanging around the fence opposite the Flying Lizard pit, he grabbed a Sharpie and walked over. That's class--and the guy I'd sponsor if I was in such a position.

There are other guys making a living at driving. My point was just that it's tough, so only the cream rises to the top. For myself, I realized I had better find another way to make a living with cars. Fortunately others have more driving talent than I do.
Jan. 15, 2011 5:55 p.m. Vigo Dork

I havent gotten a chance to read the article.

But i will say that in my honest opinion.. being able to write well is at least as uncommon as being able to drive well.
Jan. 17, 2011 11:21 a.m. imirk New Reader

I guess the difference is that you can still get paid if you can only write semi-competently, while it takes extraordinary driving ability to get paid.
Jan. 17, 2011 2:06 p.m. Wally SuperDork

imirk wrote:

I guess the difference is that you can still get paid if you can only write semi-competently, while it takes extraordinary driving ability to get paid.

It all depends on your point of view. Like Mr Long for 8 years I got paid to drive, I even won a trophy. My vehicle also had a turbo six hanging off the back end. I imagine he was having more fun most of the time though.
Jan. 17, 2011 5:44 p.m. racerdave600 HalfDork

I've known my share of pro drivers, and crewed for many years, and most of them spent LARGE sums of money to get where they were. Racing has never been cheap, ever. In the old days, you had to fund everything yourself, as there were no sponsors in road racing. In amature racing today you can get a sponsor to help with parts, tires, etc. for your spec Miata; back then, not so much. I'd probably say the opposite, I think it's much easier now to be a racer than it was then. You have so many more options when it comes to cars and classes, and many more places to source parts.

What was it I read Mark Donohue spent running his Elva for a year in the early '60's, something like $13k? That's for SCCA, in '60's dollars. What would that equate to today...something like $100,000 or so.

With the exception of the media part, I think everything David touched on was true then, as well as today. To be a pro, you had to be fast right out of the box, in everything you drove. And I think it's probably as easy to get a paying ride today as it was then too. Of course that's not a very good opportunity for most of us, just like most football players never see the NFL.

If you really and truly have the talent, and are good at promoting yourself, you can get an opportunity to succeed if you work hard enough. But David is spot on, you have to be the among the best in every one of his points. Just having money will only get you so far.

Great article David!
Jan. 18, 2011 9:05 a.m. Rusted_Busted_Spit Dork

David S. Wallens wrote:

For what it's worth, I got to watch Patrick in action last weekend. When a group of people started hanging around the fence opposite the Flying Lizard pit, he grabbed a Sharpie and walked over. That's class--and the guy I'd sponsor if I was in such a position.

Yes he is a class act. At an ALMS race a couple of years ago my son and I were at the Lizard table getting posters signed and my son was wearing a Ferrari hat with a Lizard t shirt. Mr. Long looked at my son, he was 5, said something like "You should match" and gave Ian the hat off of his head. Seems like a genuinely nice guy.

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