I am looking to build a poor man's Lotus - COUPE! not convertible. So no Miata. Maybe a SC MR2 1 gen or a turbo 2nd gen. I"ve heard they don't handle well tho - and every one I"ve seen on the autocross course is spinning on multiple corners.
Any wise input is appreciated!
They're awesome.
That's mine. 
I've never had a problem spinning out, but there is certainly a learning curve. MK2 cars are more stable and don't rev as high (and I think because of that they probably make better track cars). However, in my MK1 when it was stock, N/A, I was able to keep up with a local CSP guy in his MK2 around NJMP.
Now I swapped in an AE92 SC motor and it's fast. I'll report back after a day at Monticello in July.
I disagree with Mk2s being more stable. I've had 12 MR2s of various years, and I find the Mk1s much more controllable at (or maybe just beyond) the limit.
Mk2s are maybe more stable at higher speed and don't tend to lock up the front right brake as easily. Plus optional ABS and power steering. But when the ass end goes, you are hosed.
Neither version (unless modded / unnaturally aspirated) sees triple-digit speeds much on a typical road course.
I prefer the Mk1s for a fun drive, but the Mk2s are built like tanks. They're all great cars.
They are a bit heavy for a poor mans Lotus, but a lot of stuff can be removed.
Why not Fiat X1/9 instead?
i HEARD that the mk2s snap oversteer really badly. i havent driven either, so i dont have any real help. sorry
The suspension on later Mk2s got redesigned to lessen the snap oversteer IIRC.
^awesome
And it's really not as bad as the internet would have you think. It's an MR car, drive it as such.
I've owned 3 MKI cars and one MKII. Never did HPDE with them, but did plenty of autox, especially in the MKI car. They were an absolute blast to autox. Very light on their feet (compared to most street cars) and very easy to drive. But yes, they will oversteer if you're hamfisted with them. As has already been said, once the ass end starts to go, you better be on your game to keep it from spinning.
Gen II... They appear to be reliable fun little cars and I see them on track a lot. Like maybe 3 or 4 times in a 20 minute run... so not too fast, but I can't imagine an MR car that isn't fun. I have not ever driven one that I can recall - so the next time a student shows up with one I'll conduct a small study :)
I've also owned a dozen or more MR2's of all flavors, including an ITA car I used to run. The MKI's are more fun in my opinion, easy on tires and brakes, and really easy to drive in you do it correctly. They don't snap as bad as most make them out to be, but lifting abruptly while loaded in a corner can produce some excitement.
Also, I ran a few track days in my 2nd gen turbo as well. On an autocross course it could be a bit of a handful, but I found on track most of that went away. Slight throttle feathering meant you could place it anywhere you wanted to, and getting the boost right meant it had plenty of speed down the straights. It was totally transformed on track. I loved it, but you had to respect it more than the first gen.
2nd gen NA's are also still fun, but nothing like the 1st gen cars. I constantly find myself looking for another '85. Other than maybe another turbo, it's the only one I really want these days.
I also ran x1/9's for many many years, and they too are an absolute blast, but you have to be prepared to work on them more, and you'll never approach the power levels the MR2 can make. X1/9's are really more refined than the MR2 chassis-wise, and properly set up are the closest thing to a Lotus that you can find.
they are awesome track cars. our lemons team runs an Mk1 with a swapped JDM -GZE (supercharged version) on a basically stock suspension, and it is a blast. i've found it incredibly easy to drive, and my only previous (brief) track experience was in FWD.
i autoXed a Mk2 for a season and that car was huge fun on Hoosiers.
part of the reason MR2s are so much fun is that they pretty much do exactly what you want, when you want. where did you hear that they "don't handle well?" handling is what they do best. and if someone is spinning theirs all the time...they're doing it wrong. I spun my miata (and so far, my RX-8) a lot more than i spun the MR2.
93celicaGT2 wrote:And it's really not as bad as the internet would have you think. It's an MR car, drive it as such.
that is crazy talk. it HAS to be the car's fault.
I was reading about the handling on an MR2 forum. Seems to be a rather "known" issue, but could be novice forum contributors?
Sounds like the MR2 is much like a 911 - driven by a pro driver, they do well; but maybe dangerous driven by a novice driver. Lift - snap oversteer - crash.
The turbos are the worst for snap oversteer, especially the '91-'92 models. Other than that, you have to be doing something really stupid, then they will snap. My reasoning is that even in a fwd car at the speeds you'd need to be doing to have issues, you'd be in trouble with the fwd too. The question is, do you want to see what you are hitting or not?
With the exception of the turbo due to the added weight and more hp, they are more forgiving than the Porsche. They are also very stable under braking where many people seem to have issues.
I would prefer the smaller, lighter MK1 MR2 (it even looks more like a Lotus), but besides being rare, would a SC MK1 be a good reliable HPDE car? What are the specs for HP, TQ, and weight? Would I be better off adding a turbo to a NA MK1 car? I've heard that is very tough due to space constraints? I guess most people do engine swaps with higher HP (but still torqueless) engines........?
Check out mr2oc.com . You need to register to see the forum, but there's alot of good info there.
I have a MK1 SC (swapped w/NA tranny) and it's a blasty blast. As far as spinning goes, you don't need to be a pro driver to drive it well or quickly. There are just a few basic rules that you need to be cognizant of and those same rules hold true for all cars (just more so for the MR cars). Don't lift in a turn/transition to brakes and not expect the back to walk around on you. You can use this to your advantage to help the car rotate, or you can be scared of it.
MK1 SC cars are fun, USDM engines are 145hp, 140ish lb-ft, 2400-2500 lbs (heavier transmission and most have T-tops). NA hard tops are significantly lighter. SC cars have heat soaking problems for the intercoolers, so something will need to be done about that. I'm piecing together an Air to Water intercooler system, and again I'll report back on the results after a hot autox and a track day. A turbo swap would be fun, but that's alot of work. At the same time, you could swap in a motor from a MK2 turbo and have a real performer on your hands.
SVTF wrote:I was reading about the handling on an MR2 forum. Seems to be a rather "known" issue, but could be novice forum contributors?
Sounds like the MR2 is much like a 911 - driven by a pro driver, they do well; but maybe dangerous driven by a novice driver. Lift - snap oversteer - crash.
It mostly comes down to understanding what a vehicle needs to maintain balance. When you approach it from that standpoint and change your driving habits to suit - the problems go away. You can think about what the configuration does well and use it, compensating where it does not shine.
In the case of a 911 - they pivot and squirt out of a corner like nothing else on the planet but they need weight transfer to stop the pivoting. You have to be precise on entry so you can apply the throttle at the right time... or you have to make a bunch of mini-straights in the middle of a corner to save your arse. The same goes for MR cars except they are a little easier to work with since the rotating is in the middle just under your butt dyno and not out where you feel like you are at the wrong end of a long pendulum. Easier - but still different than what a lot of people are used to and so hilarity ensues when they do something sudden that worked well on their old Civic.
Brotus7 wrote:At the same time, you could swap in a motor from a MK2 turbo and have a real performer on your hands.
or a Camry v6. 
I've driven a Mk1 with a built engine and I thought this would make a superb track car for my limited ability - perky but not fast enough to scare myself (keep in mind I can't drive for toffee).
I am co-driving a mk1 MR2 that a friend of mine has built up for STS class autocross. I managed to spin the car at a number of events, but that was not really the cars fault. It had a lot to do with me misinterpreting the cues the car was giving me.
When I started driving this car I was coming from a car that understeered quite heavily at the limit of traction. So when I went into a corner too hot in the MR2 I was on what I thought was familiar ground, ie the car would initialy push a little at corner entry. I quickly found the difference mid corner when I would suddenly be backwards. However after a couple of events I learned to anticipate when and where the car would come loose, and I haven't really had an issue since then.
I have to say, its a FUN car to drive
I have a friend that has wheel-to-wheel road raced his 1985 MR2 for about 20 years. He's on his second chassis. He has been very successful with it and it doesn't cost that much to run, easy on gas, brakes, & tires.
As for the oversteer, common people it's a mid-engined car! Why would one want to build a mid-engined car that understeers! I can drive any number of FWD cars that are faster in a straight line and understeer in the turns if that's what I want. As has been mentioned there is a learning curve to the car but once you get comfortable with the oversteer is not an issue.
Just some brainfts
IF you really want a Lotus.... and you can't afford a Lotus. Build a Locost.
How much are you willing to spend??? There is a BIG difference between a Lotus and a MR2.... Maybe consider a TVR Vixen, and instead of the Ford 1.6, run a 4AGE. That will handle as well as a Lotus
I haven't seen a Locost coupe........?
Now, the Factory Five Daytona Coupe? Lotus who?
Actually, the TVR with the Focus SVT Cosworth engine and Getrag 6-speed would be SWEET!
It's good to hear so many have had a similar experience with the car. I've found most of the handling fears about these cars to be just that: simply fear. Spinning has never been an issue for me personally.
Having owned mine for a few years, spent way too much time on mr2oc.com, and met a few owners I've come to think the handling "problem" stories come from 3 different factors, in this order.
Uneducated or simply hamfisted drivers. I think 92CelicaGT2 said it best.
Worn suspension components + MR = excitement. Even mk2's are old cars by today's standards. Also, most mr2s are pretty cheap, and so are their owners. Most would rather buy some new bling tawainese coilover rather than spend the money and a day swapping the bushings, balljoints, and tie-rods.
This is arguable, but I also think the "conventional" suspension modification approach doesn't do the mr2 any favors in the stability department. Most OTS aftermarket springs are heavier in the rear, because that's where the weight is, right? Couple that with the thought that a bigger swaybars are always better and you get a tail-happy mid-engined car most of the time. Personally, I think running a front-stiff setup or at least no rear-swaybar greatly helps rear grip at-the-limit. Hell, I'm not running a rear-sway and I was still able to do some controllable lurid tail-out slides at the last autox.
