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Aug. 25, 2009 6:58 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

Cotton wrote:

I recently ordered the Stage I kit which will bump power up to 290HP and 340TQ while retaining. the warranty, but I haven't installed the kit yet.....soon though. I think there is another forum member that has it installed and may report back.

That's me, I've got a Sky Redline. The car is a blast to drive, and even more fun with the GMPP tune. IMO, you're a fool to shell out the cash for this car and not just plunk another $750 down for the dealer to install the GMPP tune. 30 hp, 60 ft lbs, no lift shift, raised redline, stock 100k mile fully transferrable powertrain warranty. I like the Coupe, but much prefer the styling of the Sky. Similar to our Saabaru, I wanted to cool chassis and powertrain with the slightly more sleek, less racey body style. Apparently GM has me pegged for their short-lived reskinned turbo car platforms.

I haven't driven the Sky for a week while I was out of town driving the Fiero around. The sun just poked out from behind the clouds....I'm going for a drive!

Bryce
Aug. 25, 2009 7:49 p.m. Tighe New Reader

Do you guys really like it that much? I installed mine this afternoon and don't think I noticed that much of a difference, other than the bump in the rev limiter.
Aug. 25, 2009 8:00 p.m. wspohn New Reader

Tighe wrote:

Do you guys really like it that much? I installed mine this afternoon and don't think I noticed that much of a difference, other than the bump in the rev limiter.

It can take up to a week to learn the new programming and bring it on line. Get back to us next week!
Aug. 25, 2009 8:28 p.m. Tighe New Reader

While I may be off base here I do feel I have a bit of a background in this. Were an adaptive learn may take a while to "adjust" to a new condition I'm not sure this is the case. After installation of the new sensors I had to program the ECM with a new calibration to facilitate the added power. The new sensors are solely there because the new calibration brings the readings they see out of their range.

I'm not saying it was worthless and perhaps I'm expecting too much; The rev limit was noticeably raised. But I don't see a huge difference occurring over time as nothing has changed in the form of "hard parts" that need to be adapted to. The power increase was endemic to the tune.

The above are the ramblings of a half drunk mechanic. They're worth what you paid for them.
Aug. 25, 2009 8:38 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

Tighe wrote:

The above are the ramblings of a half drunk mechanic. They're worth what you paid for them.

It takes about ten key cycles to get the full power gain, the ECM learns it's way up to the power gains. Don't ask me why GM does it this way, it's just the way they do it. You'll notice it's a lot more peppy in a week than it is today. The no-lift-shift and redline changes are immediate.

Bryce
Aug. 25, 2009 8:45 p.m. Tighe New Reader

I will do this and get back to you guys, positive or negative. Keep in mind that I'm the guy that put this kit in and they didn't give me a phone number to call to get the new program authorization from. The instruction said, "Have the ECM programmed by the dealer." Well I am the dealer and still had to call our technician support and say, "Are you the right people to call?"

I do know what you mean about not knowing why GM does the things they do. That is no dig at engineers. I have the highest regard for good desingers and engineers and the restraints they face. However sometimes I wish we had just a bit more information.
Aug. 25, 2009 9:51 p.m. neon4891 UltraDork

I have a strange urge to get a white solstice coupe and a green soft top and call them summer and winter....

I know, I'm a dork
Aug. 25, 2009 11:28 p.m. mad_machine UberDork

no, you are an ultra dork
Aug. 26, 2009 7:25 a.m. wspohn New Reader

Speaking of no lift shifts, is this going to be something that is usable in the real world?

IF you are on full throttle, and IF you are between 6300 and 6500 (which is I believe where the cut out operates), and IF you keep your foot to the floor and dab the clutch without lifting (something that flies in the face of decades of ingrained reactions to the normal driver) the PCM idles te cams, the RPM don't rise and you get a clean fast shift at red line.

Is anyone except the young kids that probably can't afford these cars anyway actually going to :

a) try this out, and b) actually have a reason for doing this more than once?

The ONLY reason for having this other than as an advertising gimmick is for drag racers - we road racers are often too busy to gauge our shifts with that much precision.

I, for one, do not expect to ever need nor try this technique.
Aug. 26, 2009 9:53 a.m. Xceler8x Dork

It does seem like a very narrow parameter for the clutchless upshifts to happen.

On motorcycles you have a button you can press that interrupts the timing. It works well if you can operate it correctly. You also have the option of timing your shifts when you feel appropriate instead of in a 200 rpm range.

I'd think they would widen the range to say 5500 - 6500.
Aug. 26, 2009 11:59 a.m. Nashco SuperDork

wspohn wrote:

Is anyone except the young kids that probably can't afford these cars anyway actually going to :

a) try this out, and b) actually have a reason for doing this more than once?

The ONLY reason for having this other than as an advertising gimmick is for drag racers - we road racers are often too busy to gauge our shifts with that much precision.

I, for one, do not expect to ever need nor try this technique.

Well, it depends on what your definition of young kids is, but I can afford the car and I've tried it out and use it occassionally on straight pulls. Why don't you try it out before you mock it any more than you already have? It's weird the first couple of times, but once you acknowledge that the accelerator pedal is just a sensor and the engine operates independently of that during the no-lift-shift, it gets more natural. I'm willing to bet even an ancient road racer like yourself has accelerated out of a slow corner and upshifted a couple of times while pulling down the main straightaway. It makes a big difference in the amount of power available immediately after the shift, such that with the tune you can chirp the tires shifting into third gear EVERY time...the computer does the thinking for you so that you can be paying attention to other things.

No, you're not going to use it cruising down the beach, running to the grocery store, or running over cones. On the rare occassion that you do use it, it's pretty fun. If you ever drag race, it's extremely useful because you can get the consistency of an automatic with the efficiency of a manual trans and it'll edge out your buddy by a car length or so.

Bryce
Aug. 27, 2009 7:37 a.m. wspohn New Reader

Nashco wrote:

If you ever drag race, it's extremely useful because you can get the consistency of an automatic with the efficiency of a manual trans and it'll edge out your buddy by a car length or so.

That's fair, Bryce. I do not drag race (I am the guy that has to change the clutches, and besides, it just isn't my thing) but can see the utility of it even on th road circuit.

How narrow is the window where it works and how hard is it to hit? These things rev pretty quickly and it seems to me that you could undershoot (in which case I guess you'd just buzz the engine up to the cut off) or overshoot, in which case you'd bounce off said limiter.

Still seems like a gimmick to me, but I am willing to believe that it works....
Aug. 27, 2009 7:38 a.m. wspohn New Reader

PS - waddya mean, 'ancient'....
Aug. 27, 2009 4:57 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

wspohn wrote:

Nashco wrote:

If you ever drag race, it's extremely useful because you can get the consistency of an automatic with the efficiency of a manual trans and it'll edge out your buddy by a car length or so.

That's fair, Bryce. I do not drag race (I am the guy that has to change the clutches, and besides, it just isn't my thing) but can see the utility of it even on th road circuit.

How narrow is the window where it works and how hard is it to hit? These things rev pretty quickly and it seems to me that you could undershoot (in which case I guess you'd just buzz the engine up to the cut off) or overshoot, in which case you'd bounce off said limiter.

Still seems like a gimmick to me, but I am willing to believe that it works....

If you're burning up a clutch drag racing the Sky/Solstice, you're doing it wrong. This thing is severely traction limited and builds boost very fast...it wouldn't make any sense to slip the clutch while launching it, just let the clutch out at a lower RPM.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you have (or are getting) the tune, right? Rather than ask how it works, just give it a shot yourself, it's easy. What's the worst that could happen anyway? You have a rev limiter, a warranty, and two fully functioning feet...give it a go. Try it on an open road, from a stop, with the traction control set to "competitive mode"...bring it to redline and shift without lifting the go pedal. It happens so fast that, for me, it's just natural. After the third time I tried it I stopped thinking about it and it just happens now. My favorite part is the pull in third gear...that chirp into third and the hard pull towards fourth is intoxicating. If it's a gimmick, I guess I'm a sucker. I've never heard of increased acceleration being called a gimmick. We're not talking about fuel line magnets here, this is an actual performance improvement.

Bryce
Sept. 3, 2009 2:47 p.m. wspohn New Reader

Fair enough, Bryce - I'll see what it is like.

Car is in today getting the GMPP upgrade - the additional 80 ft-lbs should be nice to have.

I am also making some other changes (like I did on my Fiero) to customize the car to suit my handling preferences. New sway bars, a couple of frame reinforcements, a set of coil overs and a new alignment and I should be good to go for a long time.

I'll tell you though - I will miss the traction of the Fiero - it just dematerializes when you drop it, while conventional RWD cars send your rubber up in smoke.
Sept. 3, 2009 7:34 p.m. champ None

In reply to wspohn:

I bought my '07 Z0K n/a convertible last April. It's seriously my daily driver. You really don't need a/c in San Diego very often.

The car has been great. Some of the fit and finish items are typical GM stuff, i.e., crappy, but the handling is unreal for a stock, off-the-shelf car. I've been autocrossing for years and I can say this thing is really something else for a stock car. GM supposedly put a LOT of money into developing the Z0K cars and it shows. I'd really like to know how many were built: the Solstice Coupes are indeed rare, but I think they built only a few dozen actual Z0K's although others have been converted to Z0K spec.

Overall impression of the Solstice: great modern second car for a sports car nut who doesn't mind that it's a GM.
Sept. 3, 2009 11:40 p.m. CLNSC3 New Reader

I love the way the Solstice coupe looks but I prefer the looks of the Sky to the Solstice. I wish they made a Sky coupe!
Sept. 4, 2009 12:17 a.m. GlennS HalfDork

rare, beautiful, interesting.....possible collectors status?
Sept. 4, 2009 6:30 a.m. Nashco SuperDork

wspohn wrote:

I'll tell you though - I will miss the traction of the Fiero - it just dematerializes when you drop it, while conventional RWD cars send your rubber up in smoke.

Having driven many miles in a Fiero, I will say the traction is great, but the Fiero in stock trim has half the power/torque of the Sky. I hope to find out in the not-so-distant future what the (rwd) Fiero does with the same power/torque/tire as the Sky.

Bryce
Sept. 4, 2009 11:13 p.m. wspohn New Reader

Nashco wrote:

I hope to find out in the not-so-distant future what the (rwd) Fiero does with the same power/torque/tire as the Sky. <

Exactly why I turboed my Fiero all those years ago. Bit better power than the Sky and bit lighter. I shall be sorry to see it go!

Here's a pic I took today of my two coupes - 50 years apart!
Sept. 5, 2009 3:58 p.m. Varkwso Reader

wspohn wrote:

Nashco wrote:

I hope to find out in the not-so-distant future what the (rwd) Fiero does with the same power/torque/tire as the Sky. <

Exactly why I turboed my Fiero all those years ago. Bit better power than the Sky and bit lighter. I shall be sorry to see it go!

Here's a pic I took today of my two coupes - 50 years apart!

nice pair of cars
Sept. 6, 2009 6:55 a.m. ZOOMiata Dork

^It appears that there is another interesting car in the garage -- some sort of Ferrari? Maybe a V8 Dino?
Sept. 6, 2009 7:46 a.m. bam2002 Reader

im guessing a P car 924 944.
Sept. 7, 2009 10:17 a.m. wspohn New Reader

bam2002 wrote:

im guessing a P car 924 944.

Porsche?? Ack - never!

It is a 1969 Lamborghini Islero S.

You are forgiven for not recognizing it. They made 100 of them.

I cropped it off the pic - maybe this would have given you a better shot at guessing - pretty hard to just work with a nose shot. The other one is a 1971Jensen Interceptor.
Sept. 7, 2009 4:03 p.m. forzav12 New Reader

What a coincidence-I owned a couple Interceptors, a '59 MGA and a Lambo Jarama S(and a 400GT) I also really like the Solstice coupe!. The Islero is very cool and understated-love it. Here's a pic of some of my current fleet.

[URL=http://img3.imageshack.us/i/911330vette011.jpg/][/URL] [URL=http://img3.imageshack.us/i/911330vette008.jpg/][/URL]

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