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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Porsche 912E: Enlighten me!

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June 19, 2009 11:12 p.m. Clarty New Reader

Always interested in the coolest car for the least money, I started thinking about 912s. I know they suffer from a but of an inferiority complex because they're virtually identical to 911s. I imagine drivers of 912s always having to tell people it's just a 4-cylinder, not a 911. Over time, that could do something to a man, you know.

I know the first 912s had the 356SC engine (I think), so they have more cred than the 1976 912s with the VW Type IV engine. But are they all that bad? I had a Vanagon with the air-cooled Type IV, and it was great--when it ran. I attribute the Vanagon engine's horribleness to it having to propel what was essentially a full-size van with 67 bhp. I suspect in a 912, the engine would be less stressed, and just be much better.

Any 912 experience, impressions, image problems?
June 19, 2009 11:19 p.m. friedgreencorrado HalfDork

I reallly don't know anything about them, but I found an online community for them:

http://www.912registry.org/

G'luck, man..IIRC, there's a couple of guys around here that have/had one, scope out the threads about David's new 911. And I'm sure they'll find your thread before too long.
June 19, 2009 11:19 p.m. Luke Dork

To quote something David Wallens said in the other Porsche thread, "a good friend once called the 912 the ultimate 356."

I reckon they're pretty darn cool, and the 4-cyl inferiority complex may have been a deal breaker back when the car was new, but not any more I don't think. Plus, they do seem to be considerably cheaper than the equivalent year 911.
June 20, 2009 5:40 a.m. Woody SuperDork

The 912E had the 914 2.0 engine. They were only made in 1976 and very few were made, something like 3500 if I recall. So, 912E specific parts can be nearly impossible to find used. Also, I think that was just before Porsche started galvanizing the bodies, so watch for rust.
June 20, 2009 5:44 a.m. ddavidv SuperDork

I had this thought also, but after doing research, ruled these out as an item for the collector-geeks only. The 356 engined cars are simply far too expensive to fix. The "meh" performance coupled with engine parts prices and body corrosion risks did not make them any more of a bargain than a good six cylinder powered car. If you want a 911 to drive, don't buy a 912.

The 912E was a one-year-only oddity that is hard to find. That one may combat the higher maintenance issue better but they are so rare you could pass up a lot of SC's while you were looking for one. If you want a 911, get a real one.
June 20, 2009 7:02 a.m. Woody SuperDork

ddavidv wrote:

I had this thought also, but after doing research, ruled these out as an item for the collector-geeks only. The 356 engined cars are simply far too expensive to fix. The "meh" performance coupled with engine parts prices and body corrosion risks did not make them any more of a bargain than a good six cylinder powered car. If you want a 911 to drive, don't buy a 912.

The 912E was a one-year-only oddity that is hard to find. That one may combat the higher maintenance issue better but they are so rare you could pass up a lot of SC's while you were looking for one. If you want a 911, get a real one.

That pretty much sums it up.
June 20, 2009 7:14 a.m. mad_machine SuperDork

hence the reason the 912 has an inferiority complex.

The early 912s with the 356 engine were easier to drive than their 6 cylinder sisters. Less weight over the axle on the Short Wheel Base cars made them less likely to bite the driver.
June 20, 2009 8:20 a.m. petegossett Dork

My friend's 912 surprised me by how quick it is. I'd imagine a 911 is quicker, but the 912 is no reshaped Beetle.

I also think a 912 prepped for FSP autox would help eliminate any inferiority complex.
June 20, 2009 8:42 a.m. cwh Dork

Would you get burned at the stake for putting a Subie motor in there?
June 20, 2009 9:19 a.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

cwh wrote:

Would you get burned at the stake for putting a Subie motor in there?

In a 912E? Maybe. Andy, our Classic Motorsports auction editor, mentions the 912E in the next issue. While not nearly as fast as a 911, they're so rare that eventually values should increase. "Regular" 912s don't seem so coveted. I recently saw photos of one being turned into a Carrera RS clone.
June 20, 2009 9:30 a.m. Chris_V SuperDork

This was my '66 912:

Slightly modded 356 1800cc engine. Every Weltmeister part available in the Automotion catalog at the time. Outstanding handling car due to less weight overall and less weight in the rear. Slower than a diesel Chevette in a straight line. But was still a regional autocross champion over Corvettes and 911s due to the absolutely telepathic handling.

My buddy's '76 912E was much quicker with the 2 liter (and much easier to mod to be real quick), and still handled good. But it was still slower than my stock '74 911S by a bunch.

Most 912s have lived hard lives, as they were bought by people who didn't want to spend as much as a real 911, but had to drive them way harder to get any performance out of them. And as was mentioned, the 356 engine in the early ones costs quite a bit to buy parts for, making it more expensive to maintain than an early 911.
June 20, 2009 9:34 a.m. NYG95GA SuperDork

Put a whale tail on it, paint it with a Brumos livery, and nobody will care if it's a 4 cylinder..
June 20, 2009 9:46 a.m. Wally SuperDork

NYG95GA wrote:

Put a whale tail on it, paint it with a Brumos livery, and nobody will care if it's a 4 cylinder..

I was thinking the same thing, but wondered if the drag of the tail would stop it altogether. Am I the only one who thought Weltmeister sounded like a German porn star? "... Featuring an appearance by Da Weltmeister"
June 20, 2009 9:49 a.m. ratghia Reader

The 912 was made from 1965 to 1969 and was supposed to help in the transition from the 356 to the 911. The car had a 356 engine but the crank journals were 85mm instead of 80mm. When sales of the 911 started to catch up to the 912 Porsche dropped it in 1969.

The 912e was a 1976 only car that had the same engine as the 914. It was supposed to be a economical 911 after the 914 stopped being produced. The 912e was designated 923 but called the 912e (like the 944 turbo was the 951). The 912e was a transition car between the 914 and the 924 and was the last air cooled 4 cylinder Porsche ever made. I seem to remember around 2100 were made.
June 20, 2009 12:37 p.m. Clarty New Reader

Most 912s have lived hard lives, as they were bought by people who didn't want to spend as much as a real 911, but had to drive them way harder to get any performance out of them. And as was mentioned, the 356 engine in the early ones costs quite a bit to buy parts for, making it more expensive to maintain than an early 911.

OK. Their appeal is diminishing.

NOW, How about a 911SC ? I'm a cheap E36 M3.
June 20, 2009 2:50 p.m. DILYSI Dave SuperDork

cwh wrote:

Would you get burned at the stake for putting a Subie motor in there?

Search "Porscheru" on here. Steve did just that transplant with a 1.8L Subie motor. The plan was to make it a runner on the 1.8, then swap to a 2.0T or a 2.5. The 1.8 ran so well and was so "right" for the car that it ended up staying.
June 20, 2009 4:10 p.m. mad_machine SuperDork

well.. if you are not after originality.. a Modded Type 1 VW engine will put out more power than the 356 engine... you can always keep the original around for the day you want to sell/restore your 912
June 20, 2009 4:48 p.m. Woody SuperDork

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=479214&highlight=912E
June 20, 2009 6:15 p.m. David S. Wallens Editorial Director

Clarty wrote:

NOW, How about a 911SC ? I'm a cheap E36 M3.

I know someone is going to complain because we have been talking a lot about Porsches lately, but these links should help:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/911-sc-talk-me-down/10341/page1/

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/small-porsche-911-update/11145/page1/

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/i-can-afford-to-buy-a-911-but-can-i-aff...

And judging by the recent ads that I have seen, a nice 912E can fetch about as much as a nice 911SC. 912 prices seem to be a little bit less.
June 20, 2009 7:04 p.m. Feedyurhed Reader

David S. Wallens wrote:

I know someone is going to complain because we have been talking a lot about Porsches lately,

I didn't think it was possible to talk too much about Porsches!
June 20, 2009 7:44 p.m. 4g63t Reader

Even the die hard, message board Mitsubishi guy likes to hear about them, and will eventually own one.
June 21, 2009 2:47 a.m. smog7 Dork

http://slo.craigslist.org/cto/1229420677.html
June 21, 2009 8:22 a.m. Rusnak_322 New Reader

I just watched a special on the 911. They said that the first year that the 911 and 912 were sold, they made 9000 of the 912 and 4000 of the 911. I can't imagine that every single one of them was beat to death. Hell, there are guys who baby the 1.6 Miata and that isn't a rocket ship either.
June 21, 2009 8:26 a.m. Junkyard_Dog Reader

Rusnak_322 wrote:

I just watched a special on the 911. They said that the first year that the 911 and 912 were sold, they made 9000 of the 912 and 4000 of the 911. I can't imagine that every single one of them was beat to death. Hell, there are guys who baby the 1.6 Miata and that isn't a rocket ship either.

Is the new official GRM car a 911? Is the automatic answer to everything now "911" and not "Miata"? Do I need to sell my Miata and go Porsche shopping?

Hmmmmm......
June 21, 2009 9:41 a.m. Woody SuperDork

Junkyard_Dog wrote:

Is the new official GRM car a 911? Is the automatic answer to everything now "911" and not "Miata"? Do I need to sell my Miata and go Porsche shopping?

Hmmmmm......

Been there....already sold the one in my avatar.

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