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  Dec. 19, 2011 9:05 a.m. mtownneon New Reader

  I've joined the ranks of those who have decided that it's become too much B.S. to try and continue Club Racing. For me, it is 3 fold: My finances for the last 2 seasons have kept me home except for Soloing, now that I'm back to where I need to be financially, the cost / benefit ratio of racing in this divison (whether it be the "S" club or the "N" club) just isn't making sense, and both club's schedules / venues are long tows and don't work well with my work schedule. Problem is I still want to do some wheel to wheel racing. I have a car I've poured a bunch of time and effort into. I don't want to get rid of it, I don't want to bash the windows out of it and weld the doors shut just to run it in some fwd junk class. I enjoy Soloing it but it's not enough at times, know what I mean?

  Now that I've shared my tale of whoa, my question is: How many others are in the same position? Next question is: Who'd be interested in putting something together to do some racing with our current cars as they are without breaking the bank, specifically in central Indiana? Assume for the sake of this conversation that we're talking about IT / small bore Prepared type cars and racers.

  I have a couple ideas of how a group of us could make something happen.

  Idea #1: If we could get a dozen or more teams to commit, we could approach some of the local short track promotors and see if they'd allow us a class of our own a couple of nights a season. I know that it's roundy-round but it beats nothing and running in our own class, the racing would as clean as we want to make it. It's not like I'm suggesting we be fed to the wolves in a regular class. 2 tracks in particular I think would work well would be Mt Lawn near New Castle and Baerfield in Ft. Wayne. If we could offer 10-12 or more cars, I'm sure promotors would be interested, especially if we tell them we aren't interested in anything more than a couple of trophies if that much. More back gate, the posibility of some more front gate from us being there without having to put more pressure on the purse? I don't see the answer being no.

  Idea #2: Quick backstory: In talks with the track manager @ Lucas Oil Raceway (ORP / IRP) he was trying to figure a way to get at least a portion of the road course back up and running. He was thinking of somehow to make the portion of the course from turns 9 to 15 work. Long story short, the cost to make it work would be fairly high without any guarantee that it would generate enough income. I let that rattle around in my head for a while and proposed this:

  Short Course Road Racing

  It's about .6 tenths of a mile long and it would take very little effort to set up and tear down. I presented it to him and he liked the idea but I haven't taken it any further. Obviously it would take a lot more commitment to make it happen but there are a bunch of possibilities too. The downside is that is a pretty heavily used part of their property so any effort to make that happen would have to be profitable for the track. The upside is that an event like that could attract a variety of racers looking for something different than the usual.

  Thoughts?

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  Dec. 19, 2011 10:35 a.m. jimbbski Reader

  Just to be clear I live about 3 hours away from Indy, just south of Chicago. I have driven IRPs road course a couple of times at track days and I can see why the two organizations you mentioned do not use it. It's not safe as is.

  It could be made safe but we get back to the "chicken or the egg" problem. The track won't spend the money to "fix" the track unless the clubs race there but the clubs won't race there until it's fixed! I myself love the track, warts and all. But your "short track" version doesn't do anything for me.

  Have you looked at Putnam Park road course? Close to Indy and with one execption IMO a much safer track.

  I myself race with MCSCC. We race or have raced at BFR, RA, Autobahn, Grattan, and Gingerman. None close to Indy but an alternative to the S or N organizations.

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  Dec. 19, 2011 4:41 p.m. Jason_HBC

  In reply to jimbbski: Give this group a look http://www.1010thsmotorsports.com/page/page/5236308.htm

  I have ran with them once this fall and got hooked. Now they specialize in HPDE with three groups beginer, intermediate, and advanced. The advanced group concludes with a rolling start, earn the pass, and simulates wheel to wheel. A lot of big V-8 but also some quick Miatas run in the group. The organizer Bill Neal is a fantastic guy and is quick to communicate. If you are willing to "step down" to HPDE this can be a great group. They typically run at Putnam Park.

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  Dec. 27, 2011 3:11 a.m. mguar Reader

  In reply to mtownneon:

  I found myself in that sort of situation.. SCCA got too expensive so I started Vintage racing, That started out cheap but got real expensive. When I decided to get back into it after more than a few years away I looked and found various clubs that would let me run what I brung.. Chump Car/LeMons racing seemed low cost but turns out it's not While you start out with a $500 car and performance upgrades etc. have to fall into the $500 range. (and they are not dumb, Don't try to cheat on that,) .. However in all likelyhood you'll have 4-$5000 spent by the time you're ready to pay your entrance fee. Entrance is about $500 plus 4 drivers (minimum) at $100 each plus license. (call that $1000) You'll need to buy enough gas for anywhere from 7 hours per day to 24 hours. Plus tires and brake pads If you can get 15 MPG at racing speed that's somewhere near $200 per 7 hour day to near $2000 for a 24 hour event if you get 4 MPG and if you need racing gas. Figure a set of brakes and a set of tires. (some will last longer and some shorter) You'll need to get to the track and feed yourself plus others plus have a place for everyone to stay when not needed to race or crew.. There are other less expensive places. However no racing is gonna be cheap.

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  Dec. 27, 2011 10:04 p.m. mtownneon New Reader

  Thanks for the input. Money itself isn't really a problem. The other circumstances I cited tip the cost -vs- fun scale for me. What my purpose was for starting this thread was to reach out to others in my part of the division that have parked their cars, are scaling back for whatever reason, or looking for new challenges or something different from the norm.

  As late as 2008, one could race up to 5 weekends in central Indiana between LORI (IRP) and Putnam Park. 10 years ago, it was possible to run 5-6 weekends at LORI alone. Today, NASA holds one weekend @ Putnam. The only other auto racing events there are single marque club events. LORI's road course has been deemed unsuitable by the SCCA as it sits and my Region was the last one attempting to hold races there and it was a struggle.

  Idea #1 is something that would allow some of us with parked cars in the area or looking for more seat time a way to go racing without a long tow or spending a ton of money. It's not road racing but it's something and it's hard to beat the cost ($25- $30 pit pass per person -vs- $250- $300 entry fee).

  Idea #2 is an attempt to make lemonade out of a lemon of a situation.

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  Dec. 28, 2011 12:51 p.m. PS122 Reader

  First - I'm not a roadracer but the low cost is certainly enticing.
  

  That being said, Mt Lawn (I had to google it despite being about an hour from the track) would seem to be more geared towards a time attack/autox-type event. In Dayton, OH the MVSCC holds autocrosses at Kil-Kare Raceway (3/8 mile asphalt oval). They set up some chicanes, a chicago box and make use of the infield to come up with some decent track layouts.
  

  I love the idea of more local roadracing but I just can't see how it would translate to a 3/10 mile oval.
  

  Best of luck and if you can make it happen, I'll certainly come out to lend my support.

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  Dec. 28, 2011 2:53 p.m. mtownneon New Reader

  PS122 wrote:

  First - I'm not a roadracer but the low cost is certainly enticing.
  

  That being said, Mt Lawn (I had to google it despite being about an hour from the track) would seem to be more geared towards a time attack/autox-type event. In Dayton, OH the MVSCC holds autocrosses at Kil-Kare Raceway (3/8 mile asphalt oval). They set up some chicanes, a chicago box and make use of the infield to come up with some decent track layouts.
  

  I love the idea of more local roadracing but I just can't see how it would translate to a 3/10 mile oval.
  

  Best of luck and if you can make it happen, I'll certainly come out to lend my support.

  Thanks,

  Places like Mt Lawn could only accomodate oval racing. So what I'm proposing is going oval racing with our road race cars. Again, it's not the optimal situation but it does scratch the wheel to wheel racing itch. Our cars don't fit local track rules (our cars are too modified) and quite honestly, local oval support classes get quite rough. Most of them are knock the windows out and weld the doors shut junk classes. The thought process with going the local oval route is going in as an "invited" class we could control the situation on the track. The other advantage is that going that route is the track already has all the infrastucture in place. All we have to do is show up and race.

  Idea #2 would take a deeper level of commitment by a lot of people to make it work. Thinking is that by starting out with idea #1 a core group could be formed that would become the founders of idea #2

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  Dec. 29, 2011 12:15 p.m. PS122 Reader

  Idea #1 sounds pretty valid. I love small bore IT cars and I think they could be a lot of fun to watch on a paved oval.
  

  There is perceived "rubbin' is racin'/roundy-round" mindset that you may have to overcome but since you can essentially hand pick the participants (at least early on) maybe you can shift this perception.

  I'll definitely stay tuned.

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