R12 is it really that bad?: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

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April 21, 2011 6:19 p.m. Taiden Reader

Just got a 91 cabriolet with a half-assed AC delete. The lines are cut and that's about it.

I want to remove the lines that go through the firewall. My options are to pull out the entire evaporator (PITA), or just unbolt the lines at the evaporator (easy peasy).

So here's my question. The lines have been open for a year. Is there any issue with leaving the lines open in the cabin? All I know about R12 is all the scary "it's really bad for everything" stuff. I'm all for the easy peasy route if it's safe.

What can you all tell me about this?
April 21, 2011 6:22 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

If the lines are cut the gas is gone. Don't worry about it.
April 21, 2011 6:43 p.m. Donebrokeit Reader

R12 is not bad for people , Just cap it off and move on.
April 21, 2011 7:01 p.m. Apexcarver SuperDork

http://www.refrigerants.com/msds/r12.pdf

The MSDS sheet for R12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodifluoromethane the Wiki for R12

its bad for the environment, not bad for you.

It wrecks the E36M3 out of the ozone layer
April 21, 2011 7:17 p.m. Osterkraut SuperDork

R12 is mostly bad for DuPont.
April 21, 2011 7:21 p.m. pimpm3 New Reader

The same guy who invented CFC's also invented leaded gasoline.

Apparently he has had the greatest impact on the planet of any single organism...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Midgley,_Jr.

Before he died and they realized the impact of his inventions he was the pimp...
April 21, 2011 7:50 p.m. porksboy SuperDork

R12 is bad if you combust it, say thru the intake manifold of a running car. It will produce Phosgene, ask me how I know. 6 people sent to the hospital at a shop I worked for. I was off that day and had nothing to do with it. The schooling we were forced to take under order of OSHA was interesting. Phosgene was also used as a chemical weapon during WWI.

Like mentioned above once the lines are open the R12 is gone. The oil from the system on the other hand...
April 21, 2011 7:54 p.m. Taiden Reader

Phosgene scares the E36 M3 outta me, heard all the horror stories about using chlorinated brake cleaner on a part and then TIG welding it.

What's the deal with the oil in the system?
April 21, 2011 8:02 p.m. Rufledt HalfDork

If it was bad, I'd be dead. My van has been leaking R12 for years.
April 21, 2011 9:04 p.m. Dr. Hess SuperDork

Highly non-reactive. And heavy. Very heavy. So heavy that it sinks to the bottom of your shop and will suffocate you if you are laying under the car because it pushes out the oxygen. And it is so heavy and unreactive that it rises up 100K feet and reacts with ozone. A man got a Nobel prize for that. Then he later said he was all wrong about it, but I think he kept the money. And Dupont kept the money from R134a. And that was the blueprint for Global Warming, the declaring of Carbon Dioxide, the molecule around which Life is based, as a hazardous substance, to be regulated and banned.

So, don't worry about your cut lines.
April 21, 2011 9:49 p.m. novaderrik HalfDork

Dr. Hess wrote:

Highly non-reactive. And heavy. Very heavy. So heavy that it sinks to the bottom of your shop and will suffocate you if you are laying under the car because it pushes out the oxygen. And it is so heavy and unreactive that it rises up 100K feet and reacts with ozone. A man got a Nobel prize for that. Then he later said he was all wrong about it, but I think he kept the money. And Dupont kept the money from R134a. And that was the blueprint for Global Warming, the declaring of Carbon Dioxide, the molecule around which Life is based, as a hazardous substance, to be regulated and banned.

So, don't worry about your cut lines.

but.. but.. but.. tomorrow is earth day.. don't be saying such things...
April 22, 2011 2:01 a.m. Rufledt HalfDork

whoa it's earth day tomorrow!??! I gotta fire up the old Econoline and emit some greenhouse gasses to celebrate.
April 22, 2011 1:22 p.m. Taiden Reader

Removed the lines from the cabin and capped the evaporator lines by wrapping a bolt in electrical tape and lightly hammering it in. I noticed there was some bright green gunk in there. What is that stuff anyway?
April 22, 2011 1:38 p.m. Toyman01 SuperDork

Probably dye from a leak test. It mixes with the oil and turns into some nasty stuff. Not nasty dangerous, just nasty don't get it on your hands.
April 22, 2011 1:42 p.m. alfadriver SuperDork

On a non-environmental note- I've heard quite a few times that you can use R134 in an R12 system. Not perfect, but it will do the job.

Just in case you wanted to re-install the lines and all.

(there are times and places that cooling is invaluable...)