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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » REAL Grassroots - Another What Car Thread?

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June 10, 2009 5:02 p.m. pete240z Dork

What would be the cheapest and easiest car to run? I am interested in older cars. I am not interested in newer cars.

I love the old Datsun's but the 510's have crazy prices on those priceless parts. Fenders are $600-$800........The Datsun 240Z is more reasonable.

I am mainly talking about an older VW Bug type vehicle. New fenders are $125 each. JC Whitney fenders

A full set of downdraft carbs are $875.00 JC Whitney

I just cannot see some of the prices on the older cars. Can you? Is the cheapest older vehicle a Jeep or Beetle? What about the coolness factor?
June 10, 2009 5:09 p.m. JFX001 Dork

I know...the 1200's/510's/240's are geting up there for a decent example....plus we have to pay the east coast tax.

So....older cars that are cheap other than what you mentioned......Opel's, Fiesta's, Chevettes,Pinto's, Vega's, Corvairs....
June 10, 2009 5:15 p.m. P71 SuperDork

Cheapest old car is probably a Mustang or Camaro. You probably want something sportier, so the Datsun 240/260/280Z is a good bet. You want something that was made for a lot of years with relatively few changes and was popular new. 1st Gen RX-7, VW Beetle, Z-Car, 924/944, etc.
June 10, 2009 5:24 p.m. dean1484 Dork

P71 wrote:

924/944, etc.

He He He Cheap & Porsche in the same sentence. I guess as Porsche's go they are cheep. Nothing is really expensive with these you just have to replace so much of it as "maintenance" that these cars can kill even the best of money trees.
June 10, 2009 5:39 p.m. pete240z Dork

P71 wrote:

Cheapest old car is probably a Mustang or Camaro. You probably want something sportier, so the Datsun 240/260/280Z is a good bet. You want something that was made for a lot of years with relatively few changes and was popular new. 1st Gen RX-7, VW Beetle, Z-Car, 924/944, etc.

that is what I am talking about, my man............Mustang....
June 10, 2009 5:48 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

It doesn't get much cheaper than old VWs if you want to keep an old car on the road. However, keeping one on the road and doing a full restoration are two different stories...even with common VWs, full restorations with new/NOS German parts get expensive FAST. You can do a pretty-good job with cheap parts, but you can definitely tell the difference between the original parts and the cheap aftermarket stuff.

After having a wacked out custom VW, I'm kind of jonesin' for a simple, originalish one again. They're so damn simple in stock form and look good with very mild mods (mostly lowering and wheels/tires). They're still one of the most simple cars to work on, although the Civic seems to have caught up in terms of available aftermarket parts....or is at least close enough to call it even. I don't know if the Civic has it's own JC Whitney catalog yet.

Bryce
June 10, 2009 6:07 p.m. JFX001 Dork

pete240z wrote:

P71 wrote:

Cheapest old car is probably a Mustang or Camaro. You probably want something sportier, so the Datsun 240/260/280Z is a good bet. You want something that was made for a lot of years with relatively few changes and was popular new. 1st Gen RX-7, VW Beetle, Z-Car, 924/944, etc.

that is what I am talking about, my man............Mustang....

Mustang????

That is not where I thought that you were going with this....

Same basic rules apply for the rust belt cars regarding price.60's fastbacks are becoming a myth, convertible "projects" are 5K +....cheap coupes needing work are common in these parts.

70's Mustangs are around, but I really don't see many here in Ohio that are either really decent, or ones that I'd like to save.

'Course Fox bodies are everywhere.
June 10, 2009 6:38 p.m. ArthurDent New Reader

I found parts for my 70s Spitfire cheaper and easier to get than my 60s Beetle.
June 10, 2009 6:42 p.m. TJ Reader

I haven't seen a Fiesta in years, much less a cheap one. I'll take one.
June 10, 2009 6:43 p.m. Volksroddin HalfDork
Nashco wrote:

It doesn't get much cheaper than old VWs if you want to keep an old car on the road. However, keeping one on the road and doing a full restoration are two different stories...even with common VWs, full restorations with new/NOS German parts get expensive FAST. You can do a pretty-good job with cheap parts, but you can definitely tell the difference between the original parts and the cheap aftermarket stuff.

After having a wacked out custom VW, I'm kind of jonesin' for a simple, originalish one again. They're so damn simple in stock form and look good with very mild mods (mostly lowering and wheels/tires). They're still one of the most simple cars to work on, although the Civic seems to have caught up in terms of available aftermarket parts....or is at least close enough to call it even. I don't know if the Civic has it's own JC Whitney catalog yet.

Bryce
- 1 the classic beetle
June 10, 2009 6:45 p.m. TJ Reader

Zero Fiesta on craigslist with 500 miles of me. Lots of beetles. Lots of fox bodies.
June 10, 2009 7:01 p.m. JFX001 Dork

TJ wrote:

Zero Fiesta on craigslist with 500 miles of me. Lots of beetles. Lots of fox bodies.

Use the jaxed search:

http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/mash.cgi?

Pick your poison and don't pick an area, and it will get all of the cars on CL. A couple of nice Fiesta's, but they are in Vegas and the left coast.
June 10, 2009 7:34 p.m. P71 SuperDork

The trick with old cars is to travel and get a rust free one. Up here is a 1969 Ambassador (yeah, probably not anybody at GRM's cup of tea, but bear with me) that's nearly mint for $1000 obo. It's an I6 swap into a V8 car with a spare grill, AMC service manuals, and just boxes and boxes of spares. Super cool cruiser/tow car. In Florida, it would be a $5000 car. Plane ticket + gas for the epic road trip back will net you less than half that.

There's still a lot of Mustangs up here (though yeah, fastbacks are $$$$$), and Camaros, and Chevelles, and Novas, and even Darts.
June 10, 2009 8:39 p.m. Greg Voth Associate Publisher

I have been trying to convince my friend to give me his motorless and rusty 68 Mustang Coupe. I was thinking a mild fuel injected 5.0 with a T-5, fix most of the rust and throw on a Rustoleom dark green paint job. Then put some torque thrust II with wide tires and just driving the damn thing.
June 10, 2009 8:45 p.m. fornetti14 Reader

I'm going to say '91-'96 Escort.
(only because I just bought a decent running LX for $150). I contacted another GRM board member and I'm surprised what other super cheap junkyard stuff fits this car. First thing I need to find is a ZX2 suspension.
June 10, 2009 8:53 p.m. HappyAndy Reader

I'm glad that nobody thinks of ford falcons when trying to find fun cheap old cars I don't want the prices to get driven up before I can find annother one
June 11, 2009 8:44 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Dork

fornetti14 wrote:

I'm going to say '91-'96 Escort.
(only because I just bought a decent running LX for $150). I contacted another GRM board member and I'm surprised what other super cheap junkyard stuff fits this car. First thing I need to find is a ZX2 suspension.

I'd skip that and make sure you get the S/Rs. You can score them used out of junkyards sometimes, or buy them new from Jeg's i think for like $200 for the set. VERY good strut. Put the spring of your choice on it. Megan Racing makes a very good lowering spring for these cars. Under $200, and a nice spring rate, along with a 2-3" drop to help out the stupidly high center of gravity these things have. Well, at least mine. I have a sunroof.

I think you're going to like the car. I love mine. So much, in fact, that i bought another BG chassis car. I will unveil it early next week.
June 11, 2009 9:07 a.m. jrw1621 HalfDork

pete240z wrote:

What would be the cheapest and easiest car to run? I am interested in older cars. I am not interested in newer cars.

When you say 'run" what do you mean?
Does run mean compete with in autox, compete on track, just daily drive or all the above?

For purely daily drive I suggest a ford straight 6 F150. Engine parts and body parts are everywhere and cheap.

For autocross plus daily I recommend a 4 door Dodge Omni turbo. Purchase cheap, have the simplicity like a VW Rabbit and a ton of junkyard swappability with all the other fwd Chryslers.

For daily drive and track, is 20 years old enough?
Few things return the bang for the buck like a '90 Miata.
June 11, 2009 12:44 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

ArthurDent wrote:

I found parts for my 70s Spitfire cheaper and easier to get than my 60s Beetle.

What kind of parts? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this, since there's a bajillion aftermarket companies popping VW parts out for uber-cheap out of Brazil, Mexico, and China, and it's the most produced car ever built. A friend of mine has a Spitfire, I don't remember him saying anything about the gloriously cheap parts.

In my experience, the only pricy-ish VW parts are convertible parts, since the VW top is actually quite large and complex compared to LBCs. Fortunately, they're popular enough to be available...just more expensive than the typical VW parts.

Bryce
June 11, 2009 12:49 p.m. Tim Baxter Online Editor

I'm with Arthur. I've had old british stuff and old VWs, and parts for the british stuff tends to be cheaper and more readily available, usually.

There's not much Moss, VB or one of the other vendors can't have at your doorstep overnight, and the prices are usually lower than VWs--particularly on rubber parts. At least when I had VWs, they would just kill you on rubber parts.
June 11, 2009 1:11 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

Tim Baxter wrote:

I'm with Arthur. I've had old british stuff and old VWs, and parts for the british stuff tends to be cheaper and more readily available, usually.

There's not much Moss, VB or one of the other vendors can't have at your doorstep overnight, and the prices are usually lower than VWs--particularly on rubber parts. At least when I had VWs, they would just kill you on rubber parts.

I just checked on parts for a '69 Bug (non-vert)...I used '69 because that's the first year of IRS and JC Whitney because it's cheap and easy to find stuff on their site. $30 for a pair of door seals. $23 for front window seals. $20 for rear quarter window seals. $20 for a windshield seal. $40 for a pair of vent wing seals. $17 for a rear window seal. $8 for a front hood seal. $8 for fender beading. $22 for a full set of turn signal/taillight seals.

That's most of the rubber seals I could contemplate wanting to replace on a non-resto for less than $200. Is that a lot? I thought that seemed dirt cheap compared to other cars (newer and older) that I've owned. Looking on the Moss website, I'm not seeing things cheaper on the Spitfire side.

Bryce
June 11, 2009 1:18 p.m. pinchvalve UltraDork

I gotta vote for the Jeep. It has as few other things going for it as well. Every time I slide my beer gut under the 3" of clearance I get from the MR2 on stands, I tell myself that my next project will be a Jeep. Think about working on a body that is 100% metal and all flat surfaces. All repairs could be done with a welder with no need to bend or shape anything. Or swap on a fiberglass one and simply patch the holes as needed. Parts are easy and plentiful to source, affordable, and there is more information available about modifying Jeeps on the internet than there is porn. (I bet I could find a porn/jeep site)
June 11, 2009 2:01 p.m. billy3esq Dork

When I was growing up, my Mom had a '74 Beetle and Dad had a '75 or '76 Spitfire. He finally got rid of it because every time he drove it, it needed something that cost $86.
June 11, 2009 2:10 p.m. Chris_V SuperDork

I'm with Bryce on this one. I've had over 30 custom air cooled VWs, and almost always went from a $200 shell to this for between $700-1200 and a couple weekend's labor:

While there are a couple catalogs for british sports cars, there are literally hundreds of places to get Bug stuff, both restoration stuff and modding stuff.
June 11, 2009 2:22 p.m. alfadriver HalfDork

Pete, what's the real criteria?

While it's nice and all to get cheap body parts, I'd say P71 is more correct to find a clean car (having worked on a lightly rusted Alfa recently, I'd agree more, but the rust in my eyes makes it tough to type).

Cheap AND pleasurable? While VW's can be cool, how much do you have to put in them to be really fun to drive? Is it ok that you have to modify the car to be pleasurable? Like a Fiat 850 can be a blast, it's probably a lot easier to do a 124 Spider.

It's such a broad question. And how old is old? Does the 80's mustang even qualify? Or will it have to be some 70's car where the emissions controls are easily modified?

How cheap is cheap? Cheap on time, cheap on the wallet? Some cars DO satisfy both, but it's pretty rare.

I'd still lay out a '91 Miata. Simple 1600, spritely, slow enough for insurance to be cheap, large support group, pretty easy to find cheap. And if you were crazy enough, I'm sure you could do a carb conversion....

Or even a late 80's/early 90's Civic. Well sorted from the early models, LOTS of performance parts, and still fast enough to tear up the STS class. On top of that, can find world class fuel economy out of many (picture a SI engine in a HF, with the HF gearbox- autocross friendly gearing + long highway miles).

And I know there are a lot of people who love tearing up Festivas. Not sure why, but they sure do love them.

Eric

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