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May 11, 2009 1:57 p.m. psteav Reader

ClemSparks wrote:

DrBoost wrote: ... and the auto trans in the Cherokee is un-freaking-breakable!!! ...the AW-4 auto still behind it. You just can't break them.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who reads these types of things and sees them as an opportunity/challenge ;)

Beware, the Cherokee went to the Chrysler transmission in 92 or 93, IIRC. This is a variant of the same transmission behind the engine in the Dakota (at least the auto). The AW4 is great (aisin/warner design, shares a lot of common points with Toyota automatics). Any of the Chrysler four-speed automatics from that era are time bombs. Not that that necessarily makes it a bad choice, but you WILL rebuild them every 120k-150k.

Now, the Cherokee and the Dakota (4 cylinder and V6) also use the same manual transmission...the AX-15...which is pretty tough. The V8 Dakota uses an NV-3550. I don't know much about them.
May 11, 2009 2:02 p.m. Carson HalfDork

I'll suggest a Dakota too. I had a '92 club cab 3.9 v6/5 speed in high school/some college that my dad bought new. Completely indestructible and reliable. I gave it to my brother with 310k on it. He drove it for another year and a half before he sold it still running strong. The only thing I ever did to that truck was change the oil and beat the E36 M3 out of it. Seriously, it was still on original shocks haha.

I never towed anything more than engines, parts, and bikes, but I think it should meet your needs.
May 11, 2009 2:13 p.m. 93celicaGT2 Dork

P71 wrote:

It gets more than 20MPG highway and can tow about a dozen Celicas, so what requirement doesn't it meet?

You do know an entire Ford 302 V8 with transmission will fit in the trunk, with the lid closed. Also an entire FB RX-7 interior including seats and a pair of doors and the hatch glass. Both times with the full size spare and toolbox in the trunk.

Just saying...

If you absolutely have to have a "truck" though, the Jeep Cherokee with the I-6 (4.0) is where it's at. Decent mileage unloaded, can tow like a full size, and ridiculously cheap. NEW brake rotors are $21!!

I don't feel like lifting anything over the rear to go INTO the trunk.

And it's not a truck/suv.

Cherokees seem REALLY cheap.... should i be scared?
May 11, 2009 2:17 p.m. Bobzilla Reader

Cherokee's and transmissions would scare me. That and their short wheelbase wouldn't be great for towing IMO.... trust me, just get the ECSB Chev/GMC. Depending on the year, I can guide you on cheap power upgrades/mpg increases.
May 11, 2009 2:22 p.m. Cotton Reader

I've owned a few Cherokees and one of them needed the auto replaced at 240k, but the rest were fine. The one I towed with Friday (mentioned in my earlier post) has 156k on the original tranny and towed like a champ. However, I would still suggest towing with a full size truck/SUV. I suggested the Cherokee because you seem anti full-size and, for a small SUV the, Cherokee tows pretty good.
May 11, 2009 2:25 p.m. ignorant PowerDork

The cherokee transmission is a very stout unit. It is made by Aisin Warner, a subsidiary of Toyota... That thing is a good trans. I do not know how they hold up towing. Then you're going to get into the whole.. It's not a truck debate because it is unibody and you might as well buy a ridgeline...
May 11, 2009 2:28 p.m. Toyman01 Reader

Just a personal opinion, and it's worth what you paid for it. Towing with something that just barely has enough power is NO FUN. Been there done that. I would error on the side of to much rather than to little. Also towing 3000# with a 3000# vehicle also sucks. I don't know what your car weighs, but figure 4000# with a trailer. Hook that behind a small truck and you could end up in a situation where the tail wags the dog. Trailer brakes are a necessity in this situation. High tow capacity for dirt cheap, consider a full size van. Most of them are rated at 5000# min. some are up around 10000#. $3000.00 goes a long way in the van department. Fuel economy isn't real good, 14-16 Hwy. When not towing, mine usually sits in the yard.

Around here $3000.00 trucks don't have a whole lot left to them or have lots of problems.

Good luck with your search.
May 11, 2009 2:58 p.m. Jensenman MegaDork

Cherokee (not Grand Cherokee) brakes are too small for trailer towing. BTDT.

When a 12 foot enclosed trailer with 3 dirt bikes and gear pushes you through a stoplight in Holly Hill, SC you can be REAL sure you have the wrong tow vehicle.
May 11, 2009 3:43 p.m. nocones New Reader

GM B-body wagon. 5000lb tow rating, 24mpg highway, and 3K will buy you a low mileage nicer example in most areas. it's the nicest truck you'll get for the price.
May 11, 2009 3:52 p.m. P71 Dork

The real question is what exactly is wrong with your Celica to cause you to tow it? If I can drive a buzzing rotary 100+ miles to autocrosses then surely you can handle a Celica.
May 11, 2009 4:05 p.m. Bobzilla Reader

^ You are a bigger man than I. I can't handle the Swift for more than about 40-50 miles. My ears ring, my back hurst, my kdneys are bruised..... it's not pleasant.
May 11, 2009 4:22 p.m. psteav Reader

Something to consider if you like the idea of a cherokee...a first-generation Grand Cherokee (chassis code ZJ) is better in almost every respect for a DD. Better ride, better handling, cushier interior, etc., etc. Very long lived, a few minor spots that always seem to fail, Get an early one (93-94) with the 4.0 and AW4, and part-time 4wd (the full time transfer case is made out of papier mache and glass internally, and your fuel economy will suck). Clean ones go for $2000 around here.

I know the V8 Grand is rated for 5000 lb towing (edit: apparently the I-6 is also rated for 5k). The I-6 has the same chassis and brakes and is only down ~20hp on the V8. Mileage will be in the low 20s on the highway. Parts are everywhere....Jeep sold eleventy billion of the damn things. Jensenman worked as a service advisor for a Jeep dealer, he will be able to tell you all the trouble spots.
May 11, 2009 4:47 p.m. pres589 New Reader

Another vote for a GM B-body, preferably a wagon, like the last Olds Custom Cruiser.
May 11, 2009 4:54 p.m. Jensenman MegaDork

If you go for a Grand Cherokee, look for 4 wheel disc brakes, makes all the difference in the world. The AW4 is damn near bulletproof as is the 4.0 six shooter. The later 45RFE is not very sophisticated and is definitely not as tough as the AW4, although you can still rack up impressive mileages with them. For the little bit of horsepower vs the added weight, I wouldn't bother with the V8.
May 11, 2009 5:19 p.m. ncjay New Reader

I'm going out on a limb by guessing that a 1985 Chevrolet crew cab dually with a 454 cid V8 is waaayyyy out of the question. Too bad, it does a great job for me. Parts are pretty cheap and it's been unbelievably reliable. In your shoes, I'd be leaning toward some type of Jeep vehicle. They can be found at a decent price and are good for what you want.
May 11, 2009 5:22 p.m. Toyman01 Reader

P71 wrote:

The real question is what exactly is wrong with your Celica to cause you to tow it? If I can drive a buzzing rotary 100+ miles to autocrosses then surely you can handle a Celica.

100 miles listening to a rotary turning 4000rpm. I would but I'm not sure it would make it there and back.

Doesn't seat 5 either.
May 11, 2009 5:28 p.m. Bobzilla Reader

http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1165657590.html http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1165455558.html http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1163950856.html

My father has a 1991 Extendedcab long bed chevy with a new engine mostly installed ( I haven't gotten it finished yet) that will likely be coming up for sale soon. Interior is immaculate. Body is pretty good for it's age.... just saying if you aren't 100% against a fullsize they are teh best to tow with.
May 11, 2009 5:28 p.m. RussellH Reader

Wish you were closer, I'm selling my '92 Dakota Ext Cab V8 with only 83k miles on it with full power pkg, cold a/c, brand new tires, battery, brakes etc. I could've given it to you for the GRM challenge type of a price.

I upgraded to a new Ridgeline to tow a popup camper and carry the family.
May 11, 2009 5:32 p.m. Bobzilla Reader

So which gets worse mileage, the RL or the V8 Dakota?
May 11, 2009 5:33 p.m. belteshazzar Dork

Astro Astro Astro.
May 11, 2009 5:44 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

S10 or Astro. If you don't like those, consider a V6 Camry. Also, Celicas shouldn't need towed.

Bryce
May 11, 2009 5:58 p.m. oldopelguy HalfDork

The full-size 1990 2WD 1500 Chevy I'm currently trying to sell get's over 20 highway empty, about 17 mixed with or without a trailer. Certainly gets better fuel economy with it's 350 and 5-speed than any Dakota I ever had (and I had all the possible engine/trans combinations) or any of the 5 Astros we had around the place. It'll tow any single car you want to put behind it with ease, and you would have over a grand to spend on a nice paint job before you blew your $3k budget.
May 11, 2009 6:12 p.m. Bobzilla Reader

oldopelguy wrote:

The full-size 1990 2WD 1500 Chevy I'm currently trying to sell get's over 20 highway empty, about 17 mixed with or without a trailer. Certainly gets better fuel economy with it's 350 and 5-speed than any Dakota I ever had (and I had all the possible engine/trans combinations) or any of the 5 Astros we had around the place. It'll tow any single car you want to put behind it with ease, and you would have over a grand to spend on a nice paint job before you blew your $3k budget.

^ Listen to this guy. He's smart. Plus he just said all the same things I did.
May 11, 2009 6:27 p.m. Trans_Maro Reader

My personal choice would be a 1970s / 1980's Hearse.

After that, probably a Buick Roadmonster.

Either one will tow damn near anything and haul all the spares you can think of.

Used hearses are generally dirt cheap.

T.V. Tommy Ivo used to haul with a Buick Riviera back in the day.

Shawn
May 12, 2009 8:49 a.m. Cotton Reader

psteav wrote:

ClemSparks wrote:

DrBoost wrote: ... and the auto trans in the Cherokee is un-freaking-breakable!!! ...the AW-4 auto still behind it. You just can't break them.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who reads these types of things and sees them as an opportunity/challenge ;)

Beware, the Cherokee went to the Chrysler transmission in 92 or 93, IIRC. This is a variant of the same transmission behind the engine in the Dakota (at least the auto). The AW4 is great (aisin/warner design, shares a lot of common points with Toyota automatics). Any of the Chrysler four-speed automatics from that era are time bombs. Not that that necessarily makes it a bad choice, but you WILL rebuild them every 120k-150k.

Now, the Cherokee and the Dakota (4 cylinder and V6) also use the same manual transmission...the AX-15...which is pretty tough. The V8 Dakota uses an NV-3550. I don't know much about them.

My 99 Cherokee has 156k on the original auto and seems to be doing great. A buddy of mine did recently replace the auto in his 98 Grand Cherokee though. I think he had 153k.

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