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May 12, 2009 9:28 a.m. RossD Reader

My thought is if you want a DD that is a smallish suv/truck and you want it to be a tow vehicle, you'll never find one thats good at both. Lots of people use full size trucks as DDs and just like a previous poster said that towing with a barely capable tow vehicle is not fun. I've had my Cherokee and a trailer loaded down with construction debris and it certainly was less than the weight of a car and I definitately felt like I needed an upgrade in the brakes department. (I only drove through town.)

I still stand by my original post of the Full Size Jeep Grand Wagoneer. You'll be able to tow your car around without noticing and still be able to go offroading. (Of course most full size trucks with 4X4 will be able to do that, I'm just partial to the FSJs). My Cherokee is a great DD, though (barely gets 18mpg overall), but I wouldnt consider it a tow rig.
May 12, 2009 5:41 p.m. Nashco SuperDork

I think a bunch of you guys are missing this part:

93celicaGT2 wrote:

So here's my criteria:

1) SUV or extended cab truck

2) Do not want full size (will be dd'ing this to work a lot)

3) Needs to be able to tow the Celica + dolly/trailer, car weighs ~2300lbs, plus whatever the towing device weighs.

4) Would like to keep it under $3000, the cheaper, the better.

5) Don't want a V8 unless it's really cheap.

6) Reliable, and would like to see 20mpg on highway at the least.

He specifically says an SUV or extended cab truck, not full size, not a V8, 20+ mpg, etc. What fun is this game if your recommendations violates part of (most of?) the criteria?

Bryce
May 12, 2009 5:56 p.m. RussellH Reader

Bobzilla wrote:

So which gets worse mileage, the RL or the V8 Dakota?

The Dakota - about 16MPG with mostly hwy driving, with a tune up you might get another 1MPG. The RL gets about 22MPG but I won't know for sure until I refill it for the first time (still on the original gas tank - only a week old). The RL is a whole different truck though, it literally drives and feels like a mid-level-luxury car (Acura TL kinda). I couldn't be happier.
May 12, 2009 6:36 p.m. ReverendDexter HalfDork

I don't care what his requirements are, the answer is full-size Bronco.

Stay away from the 5.0 trucks, though. They're as thirsty as the 351 with no more torque than the I6.

You say no full-size due to DD requirements, the Bronco makes for an awesome DD. Good visibility, awesome turning radius, and the ability to park ANYWHERE. I can't parellel park my Celica in the spaces I can fit the Bronco in. If you go with the fuel injected I6, you can get 20+ mpg. And they handle well enough if you don't do something asinine like put a 6" lift underneath them (I frequently traveled across hwy 299 in my '79, and passed cars more often than I got passed).

As others have said, towing with "just enough" SUCKS. Towing is stressful enough without having to worry about overheating when you hit the next grade and/or having to pull over every mile because you have a line of cars stacked behind you. It's so much nicer to just be able to jump in, hook up, and GO, knowing that you have more than enough rig to do the job.

I know you won't listen, but I'll sleep better knowing I fulfilled my internet crackpot responsibility of putting forth the best option that's not a Crown Vic.
May 12, 2009 10:39 p.m. Dav New Reader

^ I agree with most of the Bronco recommendation. I sold mine a few months ago and bought a new 4x4 5.7 Tundra double-cab to replace my 1990 Bronco (5.0 5-spd manual). I REALLY miss the turn radius (it is about as good as a CJ7 or Wrangler if I recall)--but it also got about 10-11 MPG towing my CRX and couldn't even do the speed limit pulling hills--but it did pull it fine on the flats. mDespite being huge and having literally double the HP, My Tundra gets 15-16mpg pulling the car driving the exact same route--and you can barely tell you are pulling anything. However, for the price the Bronco is a good option--I sold mine with no problems other than a few drips for $1400.
May 13, 2009 8:39 a.m. P71 Dork

I second the good Reverend's Bronco recommendation. They are tough trucks and the I-6 is indestructible. We rolled a Thunderbird using a 300 I6 Bronc and a chain (so we could strip the suspension, way back in my redneck days ). They make great DD platforms with that removable rear top as well.
May 16, 2009 10:23 p.m. andrave Reader

update on this? have you got a tow vehicle yet?
May 17, 2009 8:57 a.m. 924guy HalfDork

RossD wrote:

My thought is if you want a DD that is a smallish suv/truck and you want it to be a tow vehicle, you'll never find one thats good at both.

never say never...

towed the 928 like it wasnt even there...has 4wd and will also do this without a trailer of course..hill climbing vx and can do this as well: vehicross offroad

and an overview just for S&G's: C&D Review

you wont find one for under 3k, but you will find one in our classifieds here for a bit more (shameless self serving plug)
May 18, 2009 8:23 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Dork

I haven't gotten anything yet. Spent the weekend under the Escort.

I didn't think about the Bronco, i will look into that, they're really cheap around here. I appreciate that.

As for the Vehicross.... if only. Those things are so cool.

There's one down the road for $4k, needs cats apparently (stupid expensive?) and i'd probably just cut them out and reweld some straight pipe. No emissions or inspection in this state.

I'll go offer him $3k and see what he says i guess. Probably won't have an update til Thursday or so.

Thanks guys!
May 18, 2009 2:43 p.m. andrave Reader

Good timing right after isuzu has announced they are withdrawing from the US car market!

just hope it doesn't end up like daewoo, with no replacement parts.
May 18, 2009 4:01 p.m. Jensenman MegaDork

On cats: if you aren't in California you can probably get some aftermarkets. Like this: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQIsuzuQQVehiCROSSQQDECQQCatalytic_Conve... If you just chop them out, the MIL will stay on forever. About parts: Most non-body stuff is shared with either the Trooper or Rodeo Sport. Their only real weak point was window regulators, they were hard on them for whatever reason.

I always liked the VX. There's a yellow one around here with the lower cladding painted black instead of the gray, it has a black roof rack and slightly larger tires. It really looks good.
May 18, 2009 9:16 p.m. 924guy HalfDork

i wouldnt worry too much about parts for the VX, so many troopers and rodeos around, itll be a long time before the bins run dry. body panels on the other hand, are already an issue, try finding replacement cladding, gotta buy from japan for that stuff, so dont get hit in one...

As for the window regulators, they got an odd bend in the tracks when the factory assembled them, or needed one, easy fix though, just pull the door panel and pull the track out slightly, no more problem.

Id jump on a sub 4k VX in decent shape, its a steal, they are indeed awesome little trucks. I hate the idea of selling mine, but i need something bigger (and whatever it turns out to be will suck in comparison) and dont have the funds or space to support two seldom use trucks along side two seldom use sports cars, what can i say, im a vehicle whore
June 28, 2009 7:15 p.m. NBS2005 Dork

93celicaGT2,

Did you ever find anything? I'm looking for a family hauler, DD, that can tow 5K LBS and get 20mpg while running around town. I'm stuck too. I liked the p71 idea, but from what I've been able to find it's not rated to tow 5K LBS (somewhere between 1.5 and 3K I can't pin it down). I think it would tow that with no problem, but if I have an incident I'm going to be screwed by the law and my insurance.

Anyone come up with anything for under $4500 that will do this?
June 28, 2009 7:54 p.m. psteav Reader

NBS2005 wrote:

93celicaGT2,

Did you ever find anything? I'm looking for a family hauler, DD, that can tow 5K LBS and get 20mpg while running around town. I'm stuck too. I liked the p71 idea, but from what I've been able to find it's not rated to tow 5K LBS (somewhere between 1.5 and 3K I can't pin it down). I think it would tow that with no problem, but if I have an incident I'm going to be screwed by the law and my insurance.

Anyone come up with anything for under $4500 that will do this?

4.0 Grand Cherokee or 4.0 Regular Cherokee.

$4500 will buy a very nice example of either.
June 28, 2009 9:41 p.m. confuZion3 Dork

I met a guy who towed his Chevy Impala wagon track car to the track with another Chevy Impala wagon. Gotta love V8 engines.
June 28, 2009 9:55 p.m. JFX001 Dork

As much as I like the Bronco, you might want to check out JThw8's thread about his police spec'd Tahoe.
June 29, 2009 3:07 a.m. granth New Reader

So is there any way around the 55mph law if you have car hauler (truck/flatbed) all as one or a bus that has been gutted to allow a car inside? Any ideas?
June 29, 2009 7:05 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Dork

NBS2005 wrote:

93celicaGT2,

Did you ever find anything? I'm looking for a family hauler, DD, that can tow 5K LBS and get 20mpg while running around town. I'm stuck too. I liked the p71 idea, but from what I've been able to find it's not rated to tow 5K LBS (somewhere between 1.5 and 3K I can't pin it down). I think it would tow that with no problem, but if I have an incident I'm going to be screwed by the law and my insurance.

Anyone come up with anything for under $4500 that will do this?

Nah, i made a bonehead move and dumped more money into the Celica that i wanted to tow, making it even less streetable, and then bought a 20 year old boosted Japanese car.

I'm smart, i swear i am.
June 29, 2009 8:39 p.m. andrave Reader

the latino transmission shop down the road has a pontiac trasnport with $3200 on the windshield. Looks clean. I figger it'd do it if you got any money left over.
June 29, 2009 9:29 p.m. ManofFewWords Reader

I've had several AWD Astros. I have found that in the high mileage examples that I have bought (cheap) Keeping the AWD system up to snuff can be a real PIA. After putting a rod through the block of my last one, I bought a 92 Chevy G20 Gladiator conversion. I love it. It drives better, has better power, and gets the same mpg.
June 30, 2009 12:55 p.m. miatame2 New Reader

Beware, the Cherokee went to the Chrysler transmission in 92 or 93, IIRC. This is a variant of the same transmission behind the engine in the Dakota (at least the auto). The AW4 is great (aisin/warner design, shares a lot of common points with Toyota automatics). Any of the Chrysler four-speed automatics from that era are time bombs. Not that that necessarily makes it a bad choice, but you WILL rebuild them every 120k-150k.

I need to correct you. The Cherokee (XJ) had the AW4 all the way up to 2001 (the last year of the XJ). The GRAND Cherokee (ZJ) got the Chrysler trans in late 93 (very few ZJs have the AW4) and it has sucked since.

FWIW I towed my Challenge car (E30) on a crappy Uhaul tow dolly (no trailer brakes) from Boston to FLA and back with my '99 Cherokee without issue. I flushed the cooling system, replaced the front brakes, installed a tranny cooler and she was fine for the roughly 3000 mile trip. It is a light SUV and you'll get tugged a little in panic stops but it does tow.

I didn't read the whole thread but I don't know of many (if any) tow vehicles that will get 20mpg
June 30, 2009 2:14 p.m. RussellH Reader

My only advice is to be careful with the published tow ratings. Just because it can tow X lbs doesn't mean it's happy doing it especially if you're traveling in a hilly terrain with long steep grades. Besides there're some things you gotta learn about the GCVW, GVWR, payload etc to calculate the correct towing capacity for your own setup. Most capacities are listed with a 150lbs driver and no cargo load.

Like most people I've come full circle with believing in the 80% rule-of-towing, to not believing in it, to believing in it again.

Heck a perfect example would be my old 4cyl Volvo 240 wagon, it had a hard enough time getting out of its own way yet it was rated to tow 3500lbs. Could it? probably - if you were happy towing at 15mph up a 6% grade.
July 1, 2009 9:53 p.m. Fit_Is_Slo New Reader

+ = Powerful tow rig!!! How far did you need to tow again? You might have range issues, Also you might need a nomex car cover....
Aug. 3, 2009 10:57 a.m. ihatemybike New Reader

I also highly recommend using an Astro for a tow vehicle. I've used mine on several occasions to tow other Astros and have had no problems. Astro weigh over 4000 lbs by themselves.
andrave wrote: 20 mpg is a pipe dream tho.
I regularly get over 20 mpg with my vans regardless of whether or not it's an AWD version. This is done averaging 5 mph over in the city and 10 mph over on the highways. Just have to take it easy on the go pedal when speeding up and let the thing coast when it's time to slow down. Drafting fast moving box trucks at 2.5-3 seconds back helps improve mileage too. So far, my best tank in my 2WD van is just over 24 mpg. Hoping to get a tank over 25 mpg once the trans gets rebuilt.
Aug. 3, 2009 11:24 a.m. aeronca65t HalfDork

This is my setup. Ford Minivan. But I'm towing a 1500 lb race car and 1100 lbs trailer. You won't tow a D9 Cat with it, but for my use, it's great. Trailer has 4-wheel electric brakes. Ford has 3.9 V6.

I have at least 50 pulls (to races) on this setup so I have lots of real-world experience with it. I like it better than my old C30 Chevy van. I towed an Austin back from Ontario (to NJ) last January with it, through a lake-effect snow storm. 23 hours on the road for that trip with no issues. And when it's not towing, it's a "normal" vehicle.

We just got back from the ~Pittsburgh Vintage~ with it (for us, it's an 8 hour tow each way). Comfy, stable and gets an honest 16 mpg (towing). We had the a/c on the entire way. Cruises nice at about 60 to 65 and will easily hold 55 mph on those steeper Rt. 80 hills in central PA. Bought the van and trailer new (in '05). Have almost 70K miles on it now, much of it towing.

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