Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
1/10/19 8:29 a.m.

Im about to embark on a fools errand.

Restoring a neon.

I asked cousin eddie how he gets his hardware looking like he does. He sends to a local plater, who charges him $1/lb

So i called every plating shop within 50 miles. None want to do small lots of black hardware, or if they do its a minimum of $300

Nope.

So, with the factory hardware being black, what are my options? Ive done the clean and spray paint thing before, but its not really durable.

Caswell? Something else? Ship it all to cousin eddie? 

Black, rustproof, durable, inexpensive. Thats the specs. 

Thanks y'all. 

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
1/10/19 8:31 a.m.

If you're planning to clean up and paint the whole undercarriage to give it a nice, clean, black look, I'd just plan to clean all of the hardware well and then paint over it after it's back in place.  It'll need touch up if it gets removed / reinstalled, but it'll look good after assembly.  

If you're not going to be painting the whole underside of the car, then I'd ship the hardware off for plating.  Nothing else will hold up nearly as well IMO.  

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
1/10/19 8:34 a.m.

Car will be painted per factory finish (im not sure yet what it was) underneath.  Engine bay and jambs are body color with black hardware. 

Jumper K Balls (Trent)
Jumper K Balls (Trent) PowerDork
1/10/19 8:51 a.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Black, rustproof, durable, inexpensive. Thats the specs. 

So the Caswell metal blackening kit does what it does well. It is the same finish as you would get  on a new black Allen head bolt.  The blackening is a chemical reaction that allows the steel to hold on to a rust preventative like an oil. I think caswell ships with a variant of linseed oil , that is what it smells like at least. So over time, just like the socket head cap screws you buy they will rust. 

If you skip the oil and spray a satin clear paint on them they will look like a brand new ARP fastener.  That finish holds up to a little wrenching but I couldn't say how much. 

Our local plating shop charges $65 a batch for zinc and nickel. I have never seen the limit on the size of a batch. 2 full 5 gallon buckets and a few suspension arms were still only 65. They do a black zinc electroplate for 90 a batch. I'm not sure what it actually is though. It is thick and often the threads need to be cleaned up before use .

What is your plan to strip the fasteners? 

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
1/10/19 8:58 a.m.

Not cheap, but I tend to stock bins with new hardware with my finish of choice. In my case the gold colored zinc/chromate  finish that is common to grade 8 fasteners. From #8 to 7/16" in lengths from 1/4" to 3" seems to cover the majority of what I build and I don't have to spend hours at a wire wheel.

 

OR there is always the EASTWOOD option

https://www.eastwood.com/metal-blackening-system.html

 

Pete

 

stafford1500
stafford1500 HalfDork
1/10/19 9:03 a.m.

Michael, You could also look into gun bluing chemicals to get what you need. Not exactly black, but pretty close and the finish should hold up pretty well.

Brownells Bluing compound

The0retical
The0retical UltraDork
1/10/19 9:08 a.m.

I'd pull off what you're looking to have re-plated, weigh it, and ship it to a vendor that will do it.

Flat rate boxes have a maximum weight of 70lbs. 70lbs of hardware is a whole lot of hardware.

paranoid_android
paranoid_android UltraDork
1/10/19 9:13 a.m.

I use electrolysis to de-rust fasteners.  That process tends to leave a partial black “finish”, but it will rust if it isn’t oiled or painted.

Mcmaster Carr has pretty good prices on replacement fasteners.

If they don’t have to be black, you could spray them with Zinc-It after you clean them up.  We use this stuff at work and it works very well:

I haven’t tried it on fasteners yet.

 

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy UltimaDork
1/10/19 9:42 a.m.

I can't speak to the final finish, but you've got me curious.

For cleaning,  always found a big jar filled with cleaner and an equal measure by volume BBs and fasteners shaken well cleans things up very nicely. Do you use a different method?



 

Professor_Brap
Professor_Brap HalfDork
1/10/19 9:42 a.m.

I will get you some pictures of what the factory underside of a neon looks like. I sent all my hard ware off when I did my car. Their is also a guy on the N.org that would be more than happy to ship you factory hard ware. Hell, half of my car is new hard ware from chrysler. 

Cousin_Eddie
Cousin_Eddie HalfDork
1/10/19 9:49 a.m.

Mail it to my guys in a flat rate box.

Arrow Plating in Fort Worth Texas. 

Call them. Discuss the details. I have sent multiple mail order customers their way over the years from my motorcycle forum boards. Everyone has been happy with the service.

I have seen them do coffee cups full of hardware for customers. They don't turn down small jobs.

 They get the Cousin Eddie nod of approval. And I don't just give that out easily. 

Pimping isn't easy, but it's worth the effort. 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
1/10/19 10:04 a.m.

In reply to Brett_Murphy :

Id been meaning to get one of the vibration cleaners from harbor freight. Jumper has had good luck with them and some cleaner added.

 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
1/10/19 10:05 a.m.

In reply to Professor_Brap :

Awesome!!!

Thanks for helping me go full bore on this. I want as close to assembly line as i can reasonably get.

Slippery
Slippery SuperDork
1/10/19 10:05 a.m.

We pay $100 up to a 55 gallon barrel in florida for zinc plating. We use KPC Southern Industries in Pompano, Fl. 

Slippery
Slippery SuperDork
1/10/19 10:06 a.m.

I would search for a different guy close to you. $300 is way too much, he does not want your business. 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
1/10/19 10:19 a.m.

In reply to Cousin_Eddie :

Just called them. 50 bucks for up to 100lbs of black hardware. Plus a return shipping label.

And your results really speak to their quality.

Professor_Brap
Professor_Brap HalfDork
1/10/19 10:23 a.m.

Our cars should be pretty similar, the paint they use on the non undercoated cars is super hard to match. 

jimbbski
jimbbski Dork
1/10/19 11:50 a.m.
Jumper K Balls (Trent) said:
Dusterbd13-michael said:

Black, rustproof, durable, inexpensive. Thats the specs. 

So the Caswell metal blackening kit does what it does well. It is the same finish as you would get  on a new black Allen head bolt.  The blackening is a chemical reaction that allows the steel to hold on to a rust preventative like an oil. I think caswell ships with a variant of linseed oil , that is what it smells like at least. So over time, just like the socket head cap screws you buy they will rust. 

If you skip the oil and spray a satin clear paint on them they will look like a brand new ARP fastener.  That finish holds up to a little wrenching but I couldn't say how much. 

Our local plating shop charges $65 a batch for zinc and nickel. I have never seen the limit on the size of a batch. 2 full 5 gallon buckets and a few suspension arms were still only 65. They do a black zinc electroplate for 90 a batch. I'm not sure what it actually is though. It is thick and often the threads need to be cleaned up before use .

What is your plan to strip the fasteners? 

I have used the same chemical from Caswell. I usually either glass bead the item or soak it in phosphoric acid which is commonly available as a rust remover.  It will also blacken the item depending on the alloy and time soaked. 

You need to use a denatured alcohol soak after washing the item to keep it from flash rusting. Then dip the item in the "tool blacking" fluid.  Just follow the directions.

Last I melt up some common wax in a pot and dip each item. Leave them in for a few minutes to equalize the temp of the item with the hot wax. Then remove and hang it so the excess wax can drip off. I also use a hot air heat gun to speed up this process.  When I'm done the item looks a good as new unless there's any rust pitting. The wax will  keep the item from rusting even after install unless of course it's subject to heat hot enough ot melt the wax.  

Jpbrienp
Jpbrienp New Reader
1/10/19 12:25 p.m.

North Carolina right? 

Not sure how often you are in the Greensboro/Winston area but Stratford metal finishing in Winston or united metal finishing in Greensboro. United is normally reasonable for small jobs. 65$ lot fee last time If i remember correctly. 

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