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Login to post Forums » Grassroots Motorsports » Replacing brake shoes sucks, doesn't it? (Saturn content)

Nov. 17, 2009 7:49 p.m. Twin_Cam Dork

I get the sneaking suspicion that replacing the rear shoes in my Saturd is going to be no fun at all. I've never done it before, but it seems way more freaking complicated than discs, seeing as how you have to measure clearances, adjust stuff, re-lube 73 different things with high-temp grease, have 47 specialized tools...

That said, I did buy a hook/pick set to get the springs off, and am borrowing a measuring caliper from work to check clearances.

Any other Saturn owners care to chime in? I can't find a How-To online, SaturnFans doesn't have one, and SixthSphere has a dead link to one.
Nov. 17, 2009 8:06 p.m. corsepervita New Reader

Not sure on saturns, but when drums are in good condition (not rusted shut and everything rusted inside) I've found them actually not too bad to do. Biggest PITA is to make sure all the springs and parts are back in the way you took them out.... Bit annoying when you put them in wrong and go to take it for a drive and hear "Clunkclunkclunkclunk" and go "Ah E36 M3 i knew i forgot something...." and then get to do it all over again :P
Nov. 17, 2009 10:38 p.m. twentyover Dork

Jack up both sides of the car, pull both wheels and drums, you have a mirror image of the brake you're working on as a template.Take your time, the springs are just a minor pain in the butt.

It's not as tough as you're making it out to be. Jt spool the adjuster stars down so there's no drag. All this clearance checking? on't know about that. But I'm just a hack.
Nov. 18, 2009 5:11 a.m. foxtrapper UltraDork

Get the brake spring tools and the adjusting tool. They are cheap and make life a whole lot easier. Trying to use pliers and a screwdriver results in tears and blood and tantrums.

Do one side at a time. You will find yourself going to the other side trying to figure things out.

Practice adjusting them a little with the drum off, so you can figure out how you do it.
Nov. 18, 2009 7:30 a.m. TJ HalfDork

I always take some before pics that show everything in place before I take any springs off. Using the other side works as well. I've always done the springs with needle nose pliers and a little bit of cursing - didn't buy the right tools. It shouldn't be a very frequent task to go into them.

If one is supposed to not only use special brake tools, but lots of grease and measuring tools I've been doing it wrong. Other than measuring to see if you need new drums, I.m not sure what you'd have to measure.
Nov. 18, 2009 7:31 a.m. Tyler H Dork

I don't understand how drum brakes are 'cheaper' than disc brakes. It seems like so many more parts / points of failure. I guess the aluminum casting for the caliper must cost more than the mess of stamped steel and springs in a drum brake assy.

I've done drum brake jobs maybe 4 times, always on the back of some econo/ E36 M3box that I'm driving. It's always a little bit different, always a pain in the ass.

Drum brakes suck.

BTW...spend $15 and get a spring kit.
Nov. 18, 2009 7:44 a.m. RossD HalfDork

I just did the drums on my jeep since there was a slight grinding noise. The springs that hold the shoes to the backing plate can be a pain even with the correct tool. The first side took forever then the other side I got both in one try. WTF!
Nov. 18, 2009 7:59 a.m. DrBoost HalfDork

The drums on the Saturd aren't that bad. They are non-servo type, that makes life easier.
Just do one side at a time like others have said so you have a reference (I've done litterally 100's if not over 1,000 drum brake jobs and I still do them one side at a time). Get the brake tools, trust me. Here's what you need:
Brake hold-down spring tool (top tool pictured)

Brake spring pliers

You'll need these to pop the springs off the post at the top of the assembly by using the black tip of the tool (see it at the top-right of the pic?). Just slip it on the post and rotate it. The part at the bottom-right is for putting those springs back on the post. Thread the tool through the hook in the spring, put the end of the tool on the post and pry. The spring will drop onto the post.
Then you'll need a brake spoon

The thing about most GM FWD drum brakes is that you can't get to the adjuster with the drum on (another reason why I hate GM). you'll have to use the spoon to turn the star-wheel adjuster. Adjust them until there is slight drag with the wheel installed.
As far as clearances, don't bother. If you adjust them 'till there is slight drag (tire spins for 1 -1.5 rotations after grabbing at 12 o'clock and spinning to 6 o'clock) then you are good. As far as grease, there are 3 points on each shoe that contact the backing plate. Put a little anti-seize on those spots and you are groovy.
The worst part of the job could very well be getting the drum off. Often there is a rust lip on the very inside of the swept area of the drum because the shoes do not touch there. (see right side of pic)

If you have a rust lip, the drum will move a little but won't come off because the shoes are hanging it up. The only thing you can do besides to try and try again is to find the hold down pins on the rear of the backing plate and cut them. They will look like nail heads at the 3 and 9 o'clock positions.
On a Saturn both brake shoes (linings) should be the same size, but double check before you remove them so that you know where the longer lining goes and where the shorter lining goes.
I hope this helps?
Nov. 18, 2009 8:18 a.m. Gearheadotaku Reader

Drums aren't so bad. Take your time, compare w/ the other side. Swing by your local cheap tool place and get a hold down spring tool, (the top tool pic'd above), and a spring tool. (looks like he spoon above, just longer.) spring pliers are nice, but unless you're doing these everyday you can get by without. Get the drums turned.

+1 on the fresh spring kit
Nov. 18, 2009 8:35 a.m. 93celicaGT2 SuperDork

Drum brakes scare the E36 M3 out of me. I will never buy a car with drums, because i know my weak abilities will never be able to figure that crap out.
Nov. 18, 2009 8:54 a.m. Strizzo SuperDork

i'll say its even less fun when they're caked up with mud (ask me how i know)
Nov. 18, 2009 8:54 a.m. Dr. Hess PowerDork

Ooooo-ooooo. Vice grips and a dollar screwdriver not good enough for us, eh?
Nov. 18, 2009 9:04 a.m. tuna55 Reader

Drums are not bad, just leave the other side open for you to compare to - that's not taken apart. It's actually retty darn easy, and I never have owned a special tool. The hardest part, with a worn out rusty brake drum, is getting it off.

Drum brakes are WAY cheaper on the rear end. Ask any OEM guy. The parking brake ends up being a whole other drum brake just by itself - and if not, they make the caliper way more complicated and expensive to produce. I'd even go as far as to say that on something normal people drive, a drum brake might actually be a better choice. Drums don't warp, and they don't rust as easily either.
Nov. 18, 2009 9:27 a.m. RossD HalfDork

I couldnt get the drum off at first, so instead of trying to turn the adjust screw back, I just hit it with a hammer around the outside and pulled while doing so. I am glad I didnt even try to use the adjust to loosen them because I was hardly able to break it free turning with a vise and vise grips. The other side was freely turning though...
Nov. 18, 2009 11:06 a.m. Gearheadotaku Reader

tuna55 wrote:

Drums don't warp, and they don't rust as easily either.

Sorry, they do warp. "out-of-round' is a better description. They go sort egg shaped and will give a similar feeling to a warped rotor.
Nov. 18, 2009 11:19 a.m. pete240z Dork

foxtrapper wrote:

Get the brake spring tools and the adjusting tool. They are cheap and make life a whole lot easier. Trying to use pliers and a screwdriver results in tears and blood and tantrums.

Once I was doing the drums on our Pontiac Grand Am and somebody snuck up and punched me in the face.

Oh wait, I was using the wrong tool. When my coworker heard the story, he returned from lunch with a gift for me; the right tool.
Nov. 18, 2009 1:06 p.m. White_and_Nerdy Reader

I remember the time when bleeding the brakes on my SC2 before a track day turned into a rear brake job. Snapped the rusted bleeder screw off, so I had to open the whole thing up and replace the wheel cylinder. Boy am I glad this was at a car club event. Not only because somebody ran home and grabbed his old drum brakes for donor parts (he'd upgraded to rear discs), but also so that between all of us we could actually figure out how the freakin things worked. I'm so glad my SW2 has rear discs.

Of course, you could also go for a rear disc conversion out of a mid 90s S series with ABS...
Nov. 19, 2009 6:46 a.m. Twin_Cam Dork

Well, I guess the Haynes/Chilton people make this out to be a bit harder than it is. I suppose I will just go for it. After I buy a brake hold down tool and some anti-seize. Both things I would have at my disposal, would I still be living at home. But I'm not, and will be doing this job in the apartment parking lot, most likely under the down-the-nose glares of the people that live in my building. Silly yuppies.
Nov. 19, 2009 9:12 a.m. Wally UberDork

Just remember that if one shoe has less lining material on it than the other that that shoe faces the front of the car. I have taken apart several that were put together wrong and since you're in there you might as well put them back right.
Nov. 22, 2009 2:39 p.m. Twin_Cam Dork

Thanks for the help, guys. The job went off today without a major hitch. Only minor stuff, like getting the retainer that holds the e-brake lever onto the trailing shoe off, and I put the one adjuster end in backwards, which caused some commotion for a time, but I figured it out.

Not as hard as I thought it would be. And a mechanic's pick and hook set and one of those spring hold-down tools made everything very, very easy.

Thanks again.

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