Response to Clay RE: Greddy Kit: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine

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Jan. 12, 2009 8:52 p.m. Xceler8x HalfDork

Clay wrote:

Xceler8x, Selling the Greddy?

I'm doing a bit more than toying with the idea. I'm considering keeping it or going for a BEGI-S. The cheap arse in me says keep it and sell the old '93 Miata as an NA car with it's modifications. The tinkerer in me says sell it whole and buy the BEGI. I've done some serious mods to the Greddy kit. About the only stock part left is the intake "U" pipe, downpipe, and the turbo itself.

Don't get me wrong. The Greddy is rock solid. I took the turbo '93 Miata to Summit Point and found out I needed more cooling and an aftermarket exhaust manifold. I've since bought both parts. I was going to put in the rad when I came across the '92 I posted about a few wks ago. The '92 is now going to get boosted and I'm going to pass along the '93.

I'm afraid I'm a one track guy so the '92 is getting my attention right now. Once that's sorted I'll put more effort into the '92's ultimate fate.

Of course, I could keep it as a loaner track rat for close friends and family.
Jan. 13, 2009 1:30 p.m. Clay Reader

That's cool. I too am planning to go turbo with the Begi components soon. I just finished building my Megasquirt and once I get that installed and sorted, I'll get a downpipe and manifold to mate with a T25 I picked up. I'm trying to do things in a better order this time starting with the engine management, then the turbo. We'll see how that works... Best of luck to you...
Jan. 13, 2009 1:45 p.m. Xceler8x HalfDork

Clay wrote:

That's cool. I too am planning to go turbo with the Begi components soon. I just finished building my Megasquirt and once I get that installed and sorted, I'll get a downpipe and manifold to mate with a T25 I picked up. I'm trying to do things in a better order this time starting with the engine management, then the turbo. We'll see how that works... Best of luck to you...

I'm in the same boat Cochise. I'm thinking MS and then turbo like you. That way I'll have a handle on the baseline before trying to tune to maximize the turbo.

Saw the post on the JAW and am thinking that might be the easiest way to get a wideband in play. What wideband are you using? Are you autotuning your MS via the wideband?
Jan. 14, 2009 11:27 a.m. Clay Reader

I'm sending you an e-mail so as not to bore everyone with specifics.
Jan. 14, 2009 11:32 a.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

B-b-b-b-but, i wanna see!

Now that i have a BP-powered car, this is all very interesting to me. :D
Jan. 14, 2009 11:56 a.m. Clay Reader

Well, as long as one other person is interested... I got my Megasquirt running last night. It was actually my first try and it started right up. Of course with the wealth of info on MS'ing a Miata there wasn't that much guesswork involved. I installed my homebuilt MS1V3 parallel keeping the stock ECU to control AC, fans, and idle. I already had tapped my harness at the stock ECU for my inputs. Last night I ran my MAP line, cranked the car up and checked everything looked good in Megatune, then switched my injector outputs to my MS. Ran great with a bit of a stutter when cold. I thought, well that went so well, I should go ahead and try taking over the spark outputs. Ran great again, but still a bit of a stutter at part throttle. I switched maps to a second base map I grabbed off the web and it ran better so I kept that one for the time being. This morning it started right up in 40 degree weather, but it definitely stutters when cold. Did better after warming up. Of course I'm still on a copied base map so I have to be careful. I can switch back to my stock ECU any time (spade connectors make that really easy) until I get my wideband for some real tuning. I'm thinking I'll get the Innovate LC1 as I've read great reviews and it's extremely popular so there is lots of support for it on forums, etc. If anyone has any questions on my build/install, feel free to ask. I'm no expert by any means, but it is very fresh in my mind and at the least I can point you to the right places.

It shoudl be a great base for my turbo install in the next few months. I've got an SR20DET T25 ready to go in and RX-7 440cc injectors. Just gotta buy me a manifold and downpipe.
Jan. 14, 2009 12:03 p.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

Yours a 1.6 or 1.8?

I'm see-sawing between 3 different setups on my car...

Megasquirt as you're doing, Familia GTR ecu conversion, or just FMU and something to control timing.

I've emailed a few times back and forth with Xceler8 about his kit, and i think it would be a good starting point for me, my only concern is the FMU. I've had mixed results with them in the past in my past Honda life.
Jan. 14, 2009 12:10 p.m. Clay Reader

Mine is a 1.6. I decided to go the MS route so I could avoid all the different piggybacks and just take over. The FMU works great up until a certain point, but eventually you will need bigger injectors. I have plans of 250hp in the long term so MS was a no brainer. Plus I enjoy building stuff as much as driving it so I've been wanting to do an MS for quite a while just to learn it. And for anyone wanting to Megasquirt a Miata this site is a great resource and more nicely formatted than forums: http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/ms_assembly The component layout deletes all the stuff you don't need which will save some serious time.
Jan. 14, 2009 12:45 p.m. Xceler8x HalfDork

You guys are linking up! Great! I've been mailing you both over the last few days.

Clay - thanks for the link to the wiki. I can go there and read all the info I need without having to deal with the jackholes on miataturbo.net. I know it was written by a few of those guys but on that page I don't have to worry about getting banned for saying they wear girl pants or the sky is blue.

I just spoke to Stephanie at BEGI about an S or SSM kit. The Greddy kit does a good job of getting you in the door at a great price. I'm just interested in trying something else for my further track endeavors.
Jan. 14, 2009 1:00 p.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

Thanks for the link! I have that bookmarked now... I need to research if there's really any difference between the BP in the escort and the one used in the Miatas as well... electrically speaking of course.

I think i'm just going to go with the FMU on the kit for the time being... i'm pretty confident i should be able to pull 210-220whp out of it like that to start with, and that should be plenty to amuse myself and my gf with while i finish up the main project.

It all seems so easy compared to the stupid Celica. :(

I've always been kindof scared of Megasquirt after seeing some of the tuning issues on my buddies' 240sx KA-T and Turbo Neon setups..... but that was also a few years ago, and i'm sure it's improved greatly. My other concern is how easy it is to tune.... to say i'm not real great at it would probably be an understatement. My only experiences with tuning has been through Crome and just doing basic fuel/timing/vtec crossovers on n/a D and B-series.

I'm worried that this would give me more chance to screw up and make the car less reliable as a DD than if i just stuck with FMU.
Jan. 14, 2009 1:11 p.m. Clay Reader

I know what you mean about MS being scary. I've got some minor experience tuning from years ago, but I haven't done any in years. That's why I decided to do the parallel install. The MS and stock ECU are on the passenger floorboard. I can literally pull to the side of the road, unplug the two injector wires and two ignitor wires and plug the stock ECU back in if something isn't right. Takes 2 minutes if that. Of course once I swap injectors, that will be out the window. My Miata is my daily driver so it's gotta run every morning without fail. I would probably have been more hesitant to go MS with another type of car, but there is SO much info on MS in the Miata it calmed my fears a bit.

As for the BEGI kit, I was planning on saving up for the BEGI S when this T25 popped up on CL for $50 so I grabbed it. I've got to verify with BEGI, but I'm pretty sure the S kit components will work with the T25 and I can upgrade to a better turbo (like the GT2560) later. That should save some money up front.
Jan. 14, 2009 2:09 p.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

^See... i definitely wouldn't have thought to do that....

Another thing i'll have to do some research on: I've been researching on and off for about 2 years on how to run my Celica off of a chipped OBD1 Honda ECU for the ability to tune with Crome. There's been some MR2 guys, and at least two AllTrac guys that i know of that have done it successfully, and it's becoming popular with the 4age guys. I wonder how much of that would carry over to the BP. I'd have to convert to MAP vs AFM and the separate coil situation may actually make it easier than with the 5sfe.

I think i'll sit down this weekend and do some hardcore studying of MS and see what i think. Might make a fun fall/winter project to get ready for 2010 season. Got the car for cheap, no real sense in spending stupid coin on it.

I've got way too much money in the Smelica to want to give myself too many ways to screw it up.

Do you know offhand of any major differences between the 1.6 and the 1.8 that would give me any issues besides manifold and intercooler piping, taking a turbo kit from a 1.6 miata to a 1.8 in an Escort?
Jan. 14, 2009 2:32 p.m. Clay Reader

I can't think of any major issues other than the exhaust manifold being different, but that's a pretty big issue.

Kevin Boswell, might be able to answer some questions on that. He had a turbocharged Miata at the earlier challenges and a turbocharged, Megasquirted, AWD Tracer that was at the 2008 Challenge. Check out Kevin's build thread here: http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123708939
Jan. 14, 2009 2:46 p.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

Exhaust manifold isn't that bad.... i can get a GTR manifold for a fair price at CorkSport, it seems. If it needs an adapter plate, no biggie either, i can have a buddy fab that.

Thanks for another good link! These BP motors are nifty...
Jan. 14, 2009 3:16 p.m. 93celicaGT2 Reader

Oh... nifty... there's a pic of a minty Escort GT Iris edition in that thread...
Jan. 14, 2009 8:15 p.m. MadScientistMatt HalfDork

93celicaGT2 wrote:

Thanks for the link! I have that bookmarked now... I need to research if there's really any difference between the BP in the escort and the one used in the Miatas as well... electrically speaking of course.

Yep, distributor versus distributorless ignition. A Megasquirted FWD BP uses what we've nicknamed "half the Miata mods" - the same CKP input mods and one ignition output mod, set up the same way as a Miata. You leave off the CMP sensor input and second ignition output. Unless, of course, you want to put the Miata ignition on it.

Only other difference is that many of the FWD motors had the VICS system, which you can control if you like.

Other than that, the two engines are so close that you can get a FWD BP motor to fire up on a Miata engine map if you just change the ignition settings to distributor mode. It'll need a little tuning to account for the different intakes and all, but it's amazingly close.