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I'm going to vote for http://www.amazon.com/Truck-Rebuilding-Worn-Out-Post-Technological-Adventures/dp/0...
as official grassroots tow vehicle reading..
Very cool. It's neat to read a book written in the 70's about a guy restoring a truck from the 50's and complaining about new(late 70's) trucks having such creature comforts such as carpet in them.. It's a good read.
Evan_R wrote:And I wasn't reporting EPA mileage ratings, I was reporting real-world MPG
I do the same. EPA is a rough estimate, and for us, the highway estimate is close, but usually low.
Nashco wrote:Well, Travis, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If you're looking at a ~5 year old truck compared to a ~35 year old truck, you'll find that the brakes, handling, lighting, comfort, controls, wiring, powertrain, fuel economy, HVAC, etc. are all significantly improved. These things combined make towing soooo much better, IMO. Given that you can buy a ~10 year old truck in good shape for a couple grand, it seems well worth the extra grand to have a more modern tow rig. Like I said, if you're towing a short distance, just about anything will do the job, but if you're towing a long distance, through twisty/hilly mountains, in the dark, inclement weather, etc. it's a drastic difference.
Bryce
I couldn't agree more. I have been a big fan of the C/K trucks with the TBI. Strong, capable, durable and simple to work on. Shoot, in 1988, they were a HUGE leap forward in driveability and comfort. I never thought I'd see a better truck. Then we got the 06. Well. . .I was wrong. The 99-06 Was an even BETTER truck at being a truck and car all at once.
Just to issue a correction... the Chevy costs way more if you count depreciation.
The Ridgeline is still not a good truck or a good car - just like most SUVs... I don't really get why people buy any of these things but they don't gt why I drive around in 25yr old cars without interiors or exhausts either.
I don't quite understand the degree of venon in Bobzilla's posts, but...
Place me in the camp that cannot understand how the GRM staff can rave about towing with the Honder and the Nissan. Still, it's their choice and I respect that. They are comfortable with their application of that tool in that situation.
I come from the wretched overkill school of towing. I use a '04 E350 Club Wagon with a V10 to tow a 1600 lb. open trailer with a 2250 lb. car on it. Is it overkill? Perhaps? Is it "grassroots"? In my book yes, because a reliable tow vehicle allows me more time to spend on the race kaa. It's the right tool for my application.
I just don't understand the venom.
No "venon" (
I'm guessing venom?). Just a little confused and disappointed that a good group like GRM will offer information as fact in the article when in fact, they haven't considered any or all of the options out there. People. . let me correct myself. . . "Sheeple" will buy what they're told to buy. Even if that thing is not the best option available.
I would like to commend everyone for bringing a good conversation out without the typical "you suck" argument.
Here we go...
IF you are going to compare the Ridgeline to ANYTHING AT ALL compare it to the Chevrolet Avalanche.
Both types are the basic package with tow options.
Both are white with tan interiors.
You judge the value:
Chevrolet Avalanche said: Type• 4x4
Style
• Air Conditioning: Dual-zone manual climate control with individual climate settings for driver and right-front passenger. • Assist Handles: Front passenger and rear outboard • Audio System: AM/FM stereo with MP3 compatible CD player, auxiliary jack input, seek-and-scan, digital clock, auto-tone control, Radio Data System, speed-compensated volume and TheftLock • Audio System Feature: Six-speaker audio system • Axle: 3.42 Ratio • Battery: Heavy-duty 600 cold-cranking amps, maintenance-free with rundown protection and retained accessory power • Cargo Cover: Rear rigid, 3-piece composite, stowable onboard • Daytime Running Lamps: With automatic exterior lamp control • Defogger: Rear-window, electric • Door Handle: Black • Door Locks: Power programmable with lockout protection • Engine: Vortec 5.3L V8 SFI FlexFuel with Active Fuel Management, capable of running on unleaded or up to 85% ethanol with up to 310hp, aluminum block • Glass: Solar-Ray deep tinted (all windows except light tinted glass on windshield, driver and front passenger) • Headlamps: Dual halogen composite with automatic exterior lamp control and flash-to-pass feature • Midgate: Foldable door between cargo box and cab with a removable and stowable rear window • Mirror: Outside heated power-adjustable, manual-folding • Pickup Box Mat: Black rubber • Seats: Rear 60/40 split-bench, 3-passenger, flip and fold with child seat top tether anchor • StabiliTrak: Stability control system with traction control • Steering Wheel Controls: Mounted audio and cruise controls • Steering Wheel: Leather-wrapped • Suspension Package: Premium Smooth Ride • Suspension: Front coil-ever-shock with stabilizer bar • Suspension: Rear, multi-link with coil springs • Tire Pressure Monitoring System: (tire pressure monitoring does not apply to spare tire) • Trailering Equipment: Includes trailering hitch platform, 7-wire harness with independent fussed trailering circuits mated to a 7-way sealed connector and 2" trailering receiver • Transfer Case: Electronic Autotrac with rotary dial controls • Transmission: 6 speed automatic • Visors: Driver and front passenger illuminated vanity mirrors, padded with cloth trim, extends on rod • Wheels: 17-inch x 7.5-inch, 5-spoke Aluminum • Windows: Power with driver and front passenger Express-Down and lockout features.
Color
Exterior: Summit White Interior: Dark Cashmere / Light Cashmere Premium Cloth
Options and Packages
• Audio system, , AM/FM stereo with MP3 compatible CD player, auxiliary jack input, seek-and-scan, digital clock, auto-tone control, Radio Data System (RDS), speed-compensated volume and TheftLock $0.0 • Base body $0.0 • Color-keyed floor mats, carpeted $0.0 • Cooling, , external transmission oil cooler, heavy-duty air-to-oil $0.0 • Engine, , Vortec 5.3L V8 SFI FlexFuel, with Active Fuel Management, capable of running on unleaded or up to 85% ethanol (with gas - 315 hp [234.9 kW] @ 5200 rpm, 338 lb-ft of torque [456.3 N-m] @ 4400 rpm, with E85 ethanol - 326 hp [243.1 kW] @ 5300 rpm, 350 lb-ft of torque [472.5 N-m] @ 4400 rpm), iron block $0.0 • GVWR, , 7200 lbs. (3266 kg) $0.0 • Glass, , Solar-Ray deep tinted, (all windows except light tinted glass on windshield, driver and front passenger) $0.0 • Mirrors, , outside heated power-adjustable, manual-folding $0.0 • Moldings, , bodyside, color-keyed $0.0 • OnStar, , 1-year of Safe and Sound plan, . Includes Automatic Crash Notification, Automatic Notification of Air Bag Deployment, Stolen Vehicle Location Assistance, a link to all Emergency Services, Roadside Assistance, Remote Door Unlock (if equipped), OnStar Vehicle Diagnostics, Hands-Free Calling and Remote Horn and Lights $0.0 • Rear axle, , 3.42 ratio $0.0 • Recovery hooks, , front, frame-mounted $0.0 • Remote vehicle starter prep package, includes Remote Keyless Entry $0.0 • Sun, entertainment & destination package savings $0.0 • Tires, , P265/70R17 touring, all-season, blackwall $0.0 • Trailering Package, , heavy-duty, includes (KNP) external transmission oil cooler and (KC4) engine oil cooler, provides increased trailering capabilities $230.0 • Transmission, , 6-speed automatic $0.0 • Wheels, , 4 - 17" x 7.5" (43.2 cm x 19.1 cm) aluminum, 5-spoke, with smooth surface and rectangular pockets $0.0 • XM Radio, . XM Radio includes 3 trial months of service. XM turns your world on with commercial-free music channels from Rock to Jazz, Country to Classical, Latin Pop to Hip Hop, and virtually everything in between, all in amazing digital sound. Turn on your favorite Sports with every Major League Baseball game from Opening Day until the World Series, NHL Hockey, the PGA TOUR and college football and basketball. Plus XM brings you the biggest names in news and talk, outrageous comedy, award-winning family programming -- wherever you go from coast to coast. Exclusive live concerts, Oprah and Friends, Radio Disney, and so much more. Find what turns you on $0.0
$39,190.00
Honda Ridgeline said:*MSRP excluding tax, license, registration, $670.00 destination charge and options. Dealer prices may vary.The pricing of certain vehicles in California and select Northeastern states may vary slightly due to PZEV (Partial Zero-Emission Vehicle) standards. Please contact your dealer for complete pricing information.
Standard Features
Technical Features • 5-Speed Automatic Transmission • Drive-by-Wire™ Throttle System • Variable Torque Management® 4-Wheel Drive System (VTM-4®) • Heavy-Duty Automatic-Transmission Fluid Cooler • Heavy-Duty Radiator with 160-Watt Fans (2) • Integrated Closed-Box Frame with Unit-Body Construction • Steel-Reinforced Composite (SRC) Cargo Bed • Variable Power-Assisted Rack-and-Pinion Steering • MacPherson Strut Front Suspension • Multi-Link Rear Suspension with Trailing Arms • Front and Rear Stabilizer Bars • Power-Assisted Ventilated Front Disc/Solid Rear Disc Brakes
Safety Features • Dual-Stage, Dual Threshold Front Airbags (SRS) • Front Side Airbags with Passenger-Side Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS) • Side Curtain Airbags with Rollover Sensor • Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) • Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD) • Vehicle Stability Assist™ (VSA®) with Traction Control • Brake Assist • Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) • 3-Point Seat Belts at All Seating Positions • Side Impact Door Beams • Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren (LATCH) • Child-Proof Rear Door Locks • Head Restraints at All Seating Positions • Driver's and Front Passenger's Active Head Restraints • Daytime Running Lights (DRL)
Interior Features • Air Conditioning with Air-Filtration System • 6-Way Adjustable Driver Seat • Power Sliding Rear Window • Cruise Control • Power Windows with Auto-Up/Down Driver's Window • 60/40 Lift-Up Rear Seat with Under-Seat Storage • Multi-Functional Center Storage Console with Sliding Armrest • Beverage Holders (2 Front, 4 Rear) • 12-Volt Power Outlets (2 Front, 1 Rear) • Grab Rails (Front and Rear) • Flat Rear Floor • 100-Watt AM/FM/CD Audio System with 6 Speakers • MP3/Windows Media® Audio (WMA) Playback Capability • Trip Computer • Exterior Temperature Indicator
Exterior Features • Dual-Action Tailgate • Lockable In-Bed Trunk® • Heavy-Duty Tow Hooks (Front and Rear) • Variable Intermittent Windshield Wipers with Automatic Heated Wiper Zone • Remote Entry System • Folding Power Side Mirrors • Integrated Bed Lights (4) with Auto-Off Timer • Multi-Reflector Halogen Headlights with Auto-Off • Hidden Roof-Mounted Antenna • Pre-Wired for Trailer Harness • Integrated Class III Trailer Hitch
$30008.00
And neither are good trucks.
Evan_R wrote:njansenv wrote:He drives a volvo wagon. And just because it has the capacity to tow 3500lbs, doesn't mean I'd want to do it.....
I suppose that's true.
I'm not in any sort of rush, though.
If you are, the '84 Volvo Diesel wagon is not a good choice.
And I wasn't reporting EPA mileage ratings, I was reporting real-world MPG
They must not have hills where you live, or any concern for safety. 80 (?) hp with a loaded wagon and 3000 pounds behind you gives you about 80 pounds per hp, which will give you a 0-60 time of somewhere around 25 seconds on flat ground. Uphill onramp? Mountain pass? Ha, yeah right!
Bryce
Tom Heath wrote:You're getting worked up over Tim's column, in which he explains the reasons he chooses the Ridgeline as his tow rig. It works well for him. It's not like we did a Tow vehicle comparison...yet.
Nobody said that the Ridgeline is the official tow vehicle of Grassroots Motorsports, it's not a comparison test. If we did have an "official" tow rig, it would probably be the Nissan Pathfinder that we've been beating senseless for the last few years.
I'm also in the "can't afford a Ridgline" camp, so my solution is to keep my Miata street legal and use a tire trailer when necessary. When my budget allows for a different solution, I'm hoping for a Diesel Touareg.
Not worked up. . . just instigating a nice conversation. . .don't misunderstand me. It's not like I'm going to go out and cancel my 4 year subscription! But I chuckle everytime I see a Ridgeline with a mid 40-something tooling around by themselves around town. I know I'm getting better economy, and a better rig for all purposes than he's in.
Oh, it's a GMC. . . not a chevy. We take offense to that!
If you can't afford a Ridgeline, there's no way you'll be able to afford a Toureg diesel!!
Speaking of diesels. . . I'm begging for Hyundai to bring over it's CRDi's for the Elantra/Sonata. That is a DD I'd give my eye teeth for. C'mon diesels!
Bobzilla wrote:Just a little confused and disappointed that a good group like GRM will offer information as fact in the article when in fact, they haven't considered any or all of the options out there.
confused that we don't share your point of view?
Also have you looked at the GRM test drives/new car reviews? They had a PSD(power stroke diesel) super duty a bit ago, which most would agree is more of a tow rig than a 1/2 ton chevy that you like to overload past GVWR.. (btw.. did you know that is illegal?)
bobzilla said:will tow 8k+ lbs without a problem, even though it may "only" rated at 7500
I always found it interesting that they seem to do most of the towing (at least that they comment about) with their Nissan. Yet the Ridgeline wins the tow-rig time and time again.
puts on tin-foil hat
BTW, brakes on a Touareg... $1200.00... per axle... every 50K miles.
I always found it interesting that bobzilla's arguemnt of cost and Mpg cannot be backed up by any numbers at all... period.
ignorant wrote:Also have you looked at the GRM test drives/new car reviews? They had a PSD(power stroke diesel) super duty a bit ago, which most would agree is more of a tow rig than a 1/2 ton chevy that you like to overload past GVWR.. (btw.. did you know that is illegal?)
PSD's are overkill on so many levels. . . Unless you're pulling a FLEET of cars! lol
Yes, I know that is illegal. We didn't realize our over-capacity issue until we got it back home and did the math. It was a fairly large tractor/loader on a utility trailer. We didn't realize it was about 8k lbs combined until AFTER the fact. Truck handled it great.
He has a clogged fuel filter and he gets 24 mpg. Since he hasn't bought a filter it costs less ;)
(I keed I keed)
ignorant wrote:I always found it interesting that bobzilla's arguemnt of cost and Mpg cannot be backed up by any numbers at all... period.
24mpg. $24k. Tell me. . .what else do you need? Need me to dig out my old pictures with miles/reciepts again to prove to more people the facts of life? Or are you really out of material and now are going for the cheap shots?
So no responses on the Ridgeline-Avalanche comparason?
I would say that it would end the conversation too, but i am biased.
Turdra VS CK1500 would make a good comparason... off I go.
Everyone knows the "true" grassroots tow vehicle is one of the following: 88-98 Chevy 3/4 ton (with peeling white paint) 94-97 Dodge Cummins (with 350k miles on it) 94-97 Ford F series (with rust over the wheelwells)
But hey, those advertising dollars gotta come from somewhere, and the guys like me advertising $2500 trucks don't pay GRM for ad space, whereas the guys with dozens of new Man Vans sitting on the lot because all of a sudden trucks are not popular have deep advertising pockets to remind people why they "need" a truck.
My Dodge Cummins gets better mileage than a Honda, loaded or unloaded. It also has a full frame, full floating rear axle, leaf springs, and costs less to buy than the down payment on a new Honda. Not to mention it would rip through a Honda like it was made of tin foil, and totally embarass it should they chose to "tow up".
I spent quite a bit of time in the Tundra's delivering. I was not impressed. REally unimpressed after the 2nd transmission! But both of those were the older reg cab V6's. The best economy I ever got out of one of those was 16. Of course, worst was 14, so not much difference!
And yes, I see that Honduh took an ugly vehicle (avalanche) and made it uglier (ridgeline) but without half the "goodies" that the avalanche has (torque, mid-gate pass through, torque). The avalanche was A.) too ugly, even for me. and B.) way overpriced and unavailable with the 4.8L iirc. Not to mention, most of the comparisons are with the trucks to ridgeline and not to the Avalanche. IMO, the avalanche is not much more useful than the Ridgeline, mostly because it's overpowered, overpriced and not practical from a monetary standpoint.
"Man Vans" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA THanks for that laugh!
2009 Chevrolet Silverado LT 1500 2wd regular cab standard box 4.8L V8 $27,340.00
2009 Tundra 2wd regular cab standard box 5.7L V8 $29,191.00
That's an LT, topline as far as options go. . . go back down to a step above WT. . . that's where I shop.
Bobzilla wrote:Ok, it's great. But it still gets WORSE fuel economy than a standard truck. So why, again, is it "better?"
Where did you get this information? I have an '08 Ridgeline, that tows my racecar and trailer (well under 5k, but I have towed heavier things and it does great, 5k is a low est. in my opinion) just fine. Unloaded on average I get 24 on the highway. When I tow it gets around 16. Plus I do not need a bigger truck. It also drives a lot nicer than the Ford/Chevy/Dodge, etc....
I think that we all need to get out more.
